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Old 06-15-2017, 02:51 PM   #736
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
So then I asked you for actual evidence and you repeated yourself. Do you find that persuasive, ever?
Yeah, right. Evidence from the right. Are bell-bottoms still in fashion where you live.
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Old 06-15-2017, 02:51 PM   #737
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
There is none. This is purely anecdotal.
Bingo! And by anecdotal he means imaginary.
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Old 06-15-2017, 03:01 PM   #738
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
Take your stupid-ass both-sidesism and put it away. "Things" are not "polarized" by "extremes" on the left, and whatever extreme leftist you can find, she will have absolutely nothing to do with the behavior of the "the moderate GOP in Congress," that mythical unicorn. The polarization is asymmetric.
I was going to craft a response like this and a bunch of other shit, but I have to take a break from Sebby. If I hear another "the polls were off last time" as a justification to ignore all evidence of Trump's numbers being in the shitter, I'll lose my mind.

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Old 06-15-2017, 03:54 PM   #739
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post

The polls were wrong last cycle.
What does this mean?
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Old 06-15-2017, 04:51 PM   #740
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
Bingo! And by anecdotal he means imaginary.
You're sewww sassy. I just don't know how to grapple with it.
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:15 PM   #741
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by Adder View Post
The Senate voted for sanctions on Russia yesterday, but otherwise, even those Rs who criticize 45 publicly have voted with him.

They are still more afraid of their right than anything else.

ETA: Oh, and you can't do anything with peeled away gang of 8 types about what the administration has been doing with executive orders and points of prosecutorial emphasis. You'd need legislation and that requires majority leadership support.
All true. But those are the cards. Your best hand right now is peeling off the "mavericks."

Like I said, give them tax cuts and they might be emboldened. I know you don't like it, but the bargaining isn't all that great from your side at the moment. Alternatively, stall and resist until midterms and hope for D rout.
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:16 PM   #742
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
What does this mean?
It means the polls aren't capturing the Trumpkins too well.

It's odd, too, because these people should be the most likely of any to still own land lines.
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:17 PM   #743
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Okay, so these people are so moderate that their highest priorities are a trillion tax cut for the very highest earners (i.e., AHCA) and then more unspecified tax cuts? That's "moderate?"
Compared to the Bannon wing? Yes.
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:23 PM   #744
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Take your stupid-ass both-sidesism and put it away. "Things" are not "polarized" by "extremes" on the left, and whatever extreme leftist you can find, she will have absolutely nothing to do with the behavior of the "the moderate GOP in Congress," that mythical unicorn. The polarization is asymmetric.
Agreed. But in the spirit of removing that really nasty twit in your knickers, I wasn't suggesting any false equivalence. The right is more polarizing. But that asymmetry has been countered mightily with some serious left extremism since Trump was elected.

The GOP's hair was on fire for eight years under Obama, for no good reason. And now the left wing of the Democratic Party is on fire since Trump. But yes -- there are still more moderate Ds than moderate Rs.

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So then I asked you for actual evidence and you repeated yourself. Do you find that persuasive, ever?
It's anecdotal, as I acknowledged.
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Old 06-15-2017, 11:50 PM   #745
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Ugh. This whole story - expanded by Reality's leak to the Intercept - is really depressing on multiple levels. It makes one long for a return to paper ballots, accepting the concept that elections can be stolen by fighting over hanging chads (still bitter? Me?) in exchange for knowing that at least then the crime will be committed in front of witnesses.

(Paiey's back!)
I will never get over the chad debacle. (I worked, at the time, at a job that provided a TV for my office, so was glued to the coverage.) But our current alternate fact / fake news-believing set of the population is beyond demoralizing. If only we could go back to worrying about what happened in Slave's kitchen.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:00 AM   #746
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

First they lied about Hillary and Obama, and I did not speak out,
Because it seemed amusing;

Then they came for the facts, and I did not speak out,
Because, really, alt-facts? Who would believe it?

Then they came for the logic, and I did not speak out,
Because I couldn't understand WTF they were doing.

Then they passed a bill that gutted healthcare for millions of people without any policy rationale, logic, or facts supporting the bill.


This.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:42 AM   #747
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
The polls were wrong last cycle. They paint a very incomplete picture. Even among moderate Rs, most of whom dislike the guy, there's a distaste for what looks like a DC Establishment hit job.

The refrain from GOP sorts is almost always the same: "He's a buffoon. But this is an attempt at a coup, and that's worse."
Except that it's entirely self-inflicted. Had he just said, "Foreign interference in our elections is entirely unacceptable and we're going to do everything to make sure it can't happen" and let the FBI counterintelligence investigation play out, he'd be fine (assuming there's nothing to find).

Instead, he insisted there's nothing there, tried to shut down the investigation, bragged that he did so by firing Comey, asked the DNI and the deputy director of the NSA (I think it was) to publicly say there's no collusion, told the intelligence agencies that they're wrong, apparently randomly blurts out that he's not under investigation, repeatedly denied he was with any Russian prostitutes and otherwise acted like he's guilty as hell.

Meanwhile, we don't really know if he's guilty as hell. He might just be a petulant man-baby whose ego can't handle any suggestion that he didn't win fair and square... sorry, bigly... who crybabied his way into a criminal obstruction investigation.

Either way, this shit is on him.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:43 AM   #748
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Your best hand right now is peeling off the "mavericks."
There are no mavericks. They're all going to vote for the secret senate health care bill. What more evidence will it take for you to reach the real world?

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Alternatively, stall and resist until midterms and hope for D rout.
Now you're talking sense.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:44 AM   #749
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
It means the polls aren't capturing the Trumpkins too well.
Please go read up on the 2016 presidential election polling. You don't understand what happened.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:16 AM   #750
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Re: You've got no love for the underdog/That's why you will not survive...

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
The right is more polarizing. But that asymmetry has been countered mightily with some serious left extremism since Trump was elected.
1) Wut. Democrats generally are more energized since Trump was elected, but there has been no move to "serious left extremist," whatever that would be.

2) Your argument before, such as it was, was that there was polarization (not just that "left extremism" is happening, but that moderate Dems are moving away from the center) AND that this polarization would somehow make it more difficult for "moderate Republicans in Congress" (again, mythical beasts) to do the deals you envisaged on the environment or immigration (on the latter, in your wildest dreams). Sounds like you are executing a tactical retreat from that position.


Quote:
It's anecdotal, as I acknowledged.
You would need to add an anecdote for it to become anecdotal.
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