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Old 06-21-2018, 03:44 PM   #1291
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
I didn't omit racism. I just kind of figure at this point, any comment on why we imprison people is assumed to start with, "In addition to racism,..."

People who are interested in punishing people are inherently suspect sorts. You've got to be a very strange fuck to think, "I want to devote my time to making sure punishment is meted out." It's a psychologically creepy mindset.

I get we need to have these weird people in society. But I don't want to hang out with any of them. I don't even want them near me.
I don't think it's strange. It's essentially "If things are bad for me, they better damned well be worse for other people."
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Old 06-25-2018, 12:04 PM   #1292
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Re: We are all Slave now.

With Sarah Huckabee Sanders getting asked to leave the Red Hen restaurant, people are pointing to the hypocrisy of outrage from conservatives who supported the right of the Colorado baker to decline to serve a gay couple. And other people have pointed out that liberals are told that a failure to respect opposing views will provoke a backlash from conservatives, something that never comes up when conservatives, e.g., wear shirts that say "fuck your feelings."

There's no hypocrisy. It's all of a piece. Conservatives do not care about process and equality. They care about outcome and hierarchy. They believe that Sarah Sanders Huckabee deserves deference and gay couples do not. The point of the "fuck your feelings" shirts is that liberal feelings do not matter and conservative feelings do. Conservatives do not believe in the Golden Rule. They believe, I've got mine, and fuck you. Since Trump expresses that better than anyone else, they adore him for it. People who thought they were conservative who disagree are discovering that they are no longer conservative.
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Old 06-25-2018, 01:12 PM   #1293
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
Things are called "the NAME" when they are not a country, but a part of another country/empire. The Ukraine, the Sudetenland, the Midlands, the Pale, the Netherlands (in the Hapsburg Empire). When they become a country, they sometimes shed the "the" in order to assert their own nationhood, as Ukraine did.
For future reference, I live in "The Commonwealth of Massachusetts" and one is not a true Boston legal pedant until one corrects someone's failure to capitalize the "T" in "The" in legal documents.
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Old 06-25-2018, 01:45 PM   #1294
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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For future reference, I live in "The Commonwealth of Massachusetts" and one is not a true Boston legal pedant until one corrects someone's failure to capitalize the "T" in "The" in legal documents.
It's kind of amazing how three years of positive reinforcement for pedantry can have such enduring effects through one's lifetime. Although I suppose it's quite possible that law school simply selects for pedants.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:17 PM   #1295
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
With Sarah Huckabee Sanders getting asked to leave the Red Hen restaurant, people are pointing to the hypocrisy of outrage from conservatives who supported the right of the Colorado baker to decline to serve a gay couple. And other people have pointed out that liberals are told that a failure to respect opposing views will provoke a backlash from conservatives, something that never comes up when conservatives, e.g., wear shirts that say "fuck your feelings."

There's no hypocrisy. It's all of a piece. Conservatives do not care about process and equality. They care about outcome and hierarchy. They believe that Sarah Sanders Huckabee deserves deference and gay couples do not. The point of the "fuck your feelings" shirts is that liberal feelings do not matter and conservative feelings do. Conservatives do not believe in the Golden Rule. They believe, I've got mine, and fuck you. Since Trump expresses that better than anyone else, they adore him for it. People who thought they were conservative who disagree are discovering that they are no longer conservative.
you seem to know a whole fucking lot about how conservatives think, especially for someone living in SF. I assume blogs inform you? or are you going to Sebby's parties now?
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:50 PM   #1296
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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you seem to know a whole fucking lot about how conservatives think, especially for someone living in SF. I assume blogs inform you? or are you going to Sebby's parties now?
Thanks! I do my best.
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:43 PM   #1297
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Re: We are all Slave now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
With Sarah Huckabee Sanders getting asked to leave the Red Hen restaurant, people are pointing to the hypocrisy of outrage from conservatives who supported the right of the Colorado baker to decline to serve a gay couple. And other people have pointed out that liberals are told that a failure to respect opposing views will provoke a backlash from conservatives, something that never comes up when conservatives, e.g., wear shirts that say "fuck your feelings."

There's no hypocrisy. It's all of a piece. Conservatives do not care about process and equality. They care about outcome and hierarchy. They believe that Sarah Sanders Huckabee deserves deference and gay couples do not. The point of the "fuck your feelings" shirts is that liberal feelings do not matter and conservative feelings do. Conservatives do not believe in the Golden Rule. They believe, I've got mine, and fuck you. Since Trump expresses that better than anyone else, they adore him for it. People who thought they were conservative who disagree are discovering that they are no longer conservative.
I don't generally reply to the same post twice, but just heard the alleged voicemail message from Red Hen, " if you are a trump supporter, or even smell like one, you aren't welcome here."

Problematic? Can a restaurant avoid serving someone that might think likely supported Obama?

also, side note, actually legal question- Ollie's BarBQ was a case because there was a federal law preventing discriminating due to race? Everyone on FB talks about rights being violated by not making a cake for a gay couple- without a law, is there really a constitutional right violated if a baker doesn't want to make a cake?
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:52 PM   #1298
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Everyone on FB talks about rights being violated by not making a cake for a gay couple- without a law, is there really a constitutional right violated if a baker doesn't want to make a cake?
We might know if Justice Kennedy and the majority not deftly avoided deciding (and here I'm assuming you mean a baker does not want to make a cake because the customers are gay). Just Kagan says yes, though.

I might be wrong, but I don't think there's any federal law defining senior white house officials or chief propagandists for creeping fascism or even republicans as a protected class. The last one I'm pretty sure varies by state under state law, though.

Maybe Sanders at Red Hen is different, but I'm going to spend exactly zero time worrying about Miller or whoever showing up at a Mexican restaurant and not being welcome. They're trolling.
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:14 PM   #1299
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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We might know if Justice Kennedy and the majority not deftly avoided deciding (and here I'm assuming you mean a baker does not want to make a cake because the customers are gay). Just Kagan says yes, though.

I might be wrong, but I don't think there's any federal law defining senior white house officials or chief propagandists for creeping fascism or even republicans as a protected class. The last one I'm pretty sure varies by state under state law, though.

Maybe Sanders at Red Hen is different, but I'm going to spend exactly zero time worrying about Miller or whoever showing up at a Mexican restaurant and not being welcome. They're trolling.
Umm, what? Protected class means con right, correct? But if it takes a law to say a restaurant can’t discriminate based upon race then that isn’t a right. Is there a parallel law that extends it to gay people? Or did the original law extend to all protected classes and not just race? Or are the people explaining how kicking Sarah is ok but not cake isn’t just not understanding the law?
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Old 06-25-2018, 06:24 PM   #1300
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Umm, what? Protected class means con right, correct? But if it takes a law to say a restaurant can’t discriminate based upon race then that isn’t a right. Is there a parallel law that extends it to gay people? Or did the original law extend to all protected classes and not just race? Or are the people explaining how kicking Sarah is ok but not cake isn’t just not understanding the law?
If this made any sense, I would attempt to answer it.

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Old 06-25-2018, 06:28 PM   #1301
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Re: We are all Slave now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Umm, what? Protected class means con right, correct? But if it takes a law to say a restaurant can’t discriminate based upon race then that isn’t a right. Is there a parallel law that extends it to gay people? Or did the original law extend to all protected classes and not just race? Or are the people explaining how kicking Sarah is ok but not cake isn’t just not understanding the law?
I don't do discrimination claims, my understanding is sexual orientation discrimination suits are brought under the sex discrimination laws.

I'm pretty sure if there were a law, against discriminating against propagandists with challenging understanding of fact or truth, it'd be cited (incorrectly) in hundreds of memes all over the internet.
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Old 06-25-2018, 06:29 PM   #1302
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
I don't generally reply to the same post twice, but just heard the alleged voicemail message from Red Hen, " if you are a trump supporter, or even smell like one, you aren't welcome here."

Problematic? Can a restaurant avoid serving someone that might think likely supported Obama?
Haven't heard it. Has Snopes?

Quote:
also, side note, actually legal question- Ollie's BarBQ was a case because there was a federal law preventing discriminating due to race? Everyone on FB talks about rights being violated by not making a cake for a gay couple- without a law, is there really a constitutional right violated if a baker doesn't want to make a cake?
I thought the issue there was violation of a state right.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:53 AM   #1303
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
There's no hypocrisy. It's all of a piece. Conservatives do not care about process and equality. They care about outcome and hierarchy. They believe that Sarah Sanders Huckabee deserves deference and gay couples do not. The point of the "fuck your feelings" shirts is that liberal feelings do not matter and conservative feelings do. Conservatives do not believe in the Golden Rule. They believe, I've got mine, and fuck you. Since Trump expresses that better than anyone else, they adore him for it. People who thought they were conservative who disagree are discovering that they are no longer conservative.
I thought I would stop by since I have cooled off a bit, but I see Ty has it under control and can tell you all about what Conservatives think and believe.

For the record, Ty is wrong, and my twitter feed was full of people saying that Jack Phillips shouldn't have to bake a cake AND that the Red Hen should be able to deny SHS service, though the situations are not really comparable, as the cake case pertained specifically to furtherance of what is to many believers a sacrament, and thought Masterpiece was not decided on this basis, decorating a cake for a wedding is certainly more expressive than say throwing together a Caesar salad. See the twitter feed of every National Review contributor for confirmation (or specifically, David French, whose most recent Ordered Liberty podcast deals specifically with this issue). And many conservatives also thought that SHS bringing it up on twitter was a jackass move, but whatever. There was a fair amount of pointing out that the people cheering the Red Hen also largely intersected with the "Bake that cake, bigot!" crowd, but that's to be expected. Some people seem to be totally cool with the freedom of association thing, but only as long as it is their side "winning" by being assholes. I'm sure that the same people will be equally thrilled when someone like Cecile Richards is booted from a restaurant.

People like Ty thinking they understand conservatives in middle America is why we have Trump. I have seen a few #NeverTrumpers move to Trump agnostics and are now are full on MAGA. And it had nothing to do with Trump, but everything to do with idiots like Maxine Waters. I'm increasingly resigning myself to Trump 2020.

I'll go back to clinging to my guns and religion, now.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:58 AM   #1304
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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I thought I would stop by since I have cooled off a bit, but I see Ty has it under control and can tell you all about what Conservatives think and believe.

For the record, Ty is wrong, and my twitter feed was full of people saying that Jack Phillips shouldn't have to bake a cake AND that the Red Hen should be able to deny SHS service, though the situations are not really comparable, as the cake case pertained specifically to furtherance of what is to many believers a sacrament, and thought Masterpiece was not decided on this basis, decorating a cake for a wedding is certainly more expressive than say throwing together a Caesar salad. See the twitter feed of every National Review contributor for confirmation (or specifically, David French, whose most recent Ordered Liberty podcast deals specifically with this issue). And many conservatives also thought that SHS bringing it up on twitter was a jackass move, but whatever. There was a fair amount of pointing out that the people cheering the Red Hen also largely intersected with the "Bake that cake, bigot!" crowd, but that's to be expected. Some people seem to be totally cool with the freedom of association thing, but only as long as it is their side "winning" by being assholes. I'm sure that the same people will be equally thrilled when someone like Cecile Richards is booted from a restaurant.

People like Ty thinking they understand conservatives in middle America is why we have Trump. I have seen a few #NeverTrumpers move to Trump agnostics and are now are full on MAGA. And it had nothing to do with Trump, but everything to do with idiots like Maxine Waters. I'm increasingly resigning myself to Trump 2020.

I'll go back to clinging to my guns and religion, now.
But of course there are also some of the MAGA assholes who were saying pretty much exactly what Ty was saying. It shouldn't surprise people that conservatives aren't always in agreement with each other, even if they unify to hate the likes of Ty, TM and me (though, of course, there's particular vitriol for TM in certain circles).

I've taken to following a bunch of conservatives I rather like, and it lulls me into complacency. I mean, if all the conservatives were Podhoretz, I wouldn't worry about the country as much. But then one of them quotes Charlie Kirk or Laura Ingraham, and I'm reminded that pretty much all we hold dear is at risk, including the ability to put together 280 characters of coherent thought.
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:01 AM   #1305
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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I'll go back to clinging to my guns and religion, now.
What really pisses me off about the damn bakers is not their politics, it is that they give Christianity a bad name. The religion I cling to is a faith in which God is not a bigot.
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