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Old 08-27-2018, 10:39 AM   #2491
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Re: Way less fun than old times

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Originally Posted by Adder View Post
For those with full DM boxes, "friend" means person I primarily know over the internet.
I use “Imaginary Friend” (without the quotes).

That sucks for your “friend.” I’m sorry.
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Old 08-27-2018, 10:48 AM   #2492
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
Please rank in order things we should be concerned with on free speech:

(1) Liberty University explicitly censoring its student newspaper;
(2) UNC students being threatened with violence by radical right wingers if they speak out in support of removing Silent Sam;
(3) Old white dudes feeling uncomfortable advocating shit positions when given a national platform;
(4) A President calling the Press the "enemy of the people".
Oooh! Can I play?

2
4 - Troubling but 1 is worse. I guess specifics matter to me more.
3
1 (a) Liberty is private school with a well-know certain theological bent - one goes there primarily for the Falwellism, I assume, and (b) it’s not really “censorship” when the publisher chooses what to print and what not to print.

Last edited by Not Bob; 08-27-2018 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:28 AM   #2493
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Not Bob View Post
Oooh! Can I play?

2
4 - Troubling but 1 is worse. I guess specifics matter to me more.
3
1 (a) Liberty is private school with a well-know certain theological bent - one goes there primarily for the Falwellism, I assume, and (b) it’s not really “censorship” when the publisher chooses what to print and what not to print.
Cool!! Please play!

My reactions are that your approach is close to mine, but for the last two.

I look at this and (2) strikes me as a big problem, despite the lack of "state action" in the threats themselves. This is the one issue on the list I think someone in government ought to do something about. It's a free speech consequence of failures elsewhere in the system, and if we worry about private action chilling free speech, we ought to be much more concerned with a physical threat than a person being mean to someone with whose views they disagree.

I generally agree with you on Trump calling the press the enemy of the people. The crux of whether that one is a problem is whether his words carry policy with them, and so represent state "action", and I think they are too vague to do so. The real problem here is not that Trump says these things, but that they resonate with such a large portion of the population.

I would move Liberty University up a notch - you've suggested there is a sort of implied consent when you sign up for the program, and that is an excellent point (applicable to many Catholic Schools, too). This is really about academic freedom rather than free speech, and the extent to which prior censorship is acceptable in an academic world. This is, however, an actual example of "political correctness" being policed by a private body - Liberty can do something to the student newspapers' volunteer staff other than just say mean things about them and publish their work. Details on what is happening at Liberty are here.

In reality, I only think (2) is a problem that needs some action from the state to address, two of the remaining three are things to jaw about and the last one, where the response to bad speech is more speech, is just a place to pile on and has absolutely zero relevance to any discussion of free speech other than as an example of how free speech actually works in a Democratic society.
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:45 AM   #2494
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
Cool!! Please play!

My reactions are that your approach is close to mine, but for the last two.

I look at this and (2) strikes me as a big problem, despite the lack of "state action" in the threats themselves. This is the one issue on the list I think someone in government ought to do something about. It's a free speech consequence of failures elsewhere in the system, and if we worry about private action chilling free speech, we ought to be much more concerned with a physical threat than a person being mean to someone with whose views they disagree.

I generally agree with you on Trump calling the press the enemy of the people. The crux of whether that one is a problem is whether his words carry policy with them, and so represent state "action", and I think they are too vague to do so. The real problem here is not that Trump says these things, but that they resonate with such a large portion of the population.

I would move Liberty University up a notch - you've suggested there is a sort of implied consent when you sign up for the program, and that is an excellent point (applicable to many Catholic Schools, too). This is really about academic freedom rather than free speech, and the extent to which prior censorship is acceptable in an academic world. This is, however, an actual example of "political correctness" being policed by a private body - Liberty can do something to the student newspapers' volunteer staff other than just say mean things about them and publish their work. Details on what is happening at Liberty are here.

In reality, I only think (2) is a problem that needs some action from the state to address, two of the remaining three are things to jaw about and the last one, where the response to bad speech is more speech, is just a place to pile on and has absolutely zero relevance to any discussion of free speech other than as an example of how free speech actually works in a Democratic society.
What you guys are missing is that Liberty saved the souls of this misguided youths that would publish such blasphemy. If not for the edits, those writers would be doomed to hell.
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:56 AM   #2495
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
What you guys are missing is that Liberty saved the souls of this misguided youths that would publish such blasphemy. If not for the edits, those writers would be doomed to hell.
Quite the opposite. Falwell is a Hell Beast dragging them down with him.
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:56 AM   #2496
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Re: icymi above

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I’m not arguing Murray with you, but based on his conversation with Harris, who asked him to set forth his point, your characterization is basically fiction.
Wait, we're parsing Klein for a vague whiff of censorship during an extended conversation with the person allegedly censored, but we're taking Murray at his word? Okay.

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Old 08-27-2018, 12:05 PM   #2497
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Re: icymi above

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You just channeled Klein perfectly. Utterly chilling.
You're fucking insane.

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Old 08-27-2018, 12:41 PM   #2498
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Re: icymi above

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Wait, we're parsing Klein for a vague whiff of censorship during an extended conversation with the person allegedly censored, but we're taking Murray at his word? Okay.
Maybe he's lying. But that's what he said to Harris, and given it can be checked against books Harris claimed to have read to prepare for the interview, it'd be a dumb lie. But you're right -- I can't be sure.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:45 PM   #2499
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Re: Way less fun than old times

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A "friend" (you know what that means) posted recently about the one year anniversary of the death of his second son, born days after his first son, who has Downs, was diagnosed with leukemia. The second was born with a heart condition that required an airlift and immediate surgery that he didn't survive.

I can't imagine the pain he and his wife have been through and, as a card carrying Minnesotan, don't have any words.
A friend is someone from this board? Apparently I don't know what that means.

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Old 08-27-2018, 12:47 PM   #2500
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
What you guys are missing is that Liberty saved the souls of this misguided youths that would publish such blasphemy. If not for the edits, those writers would be doomed to hell.
If not for govt money, those editors would be checking commas in prayer books: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.3a8a96289167
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:54 PM   #2501
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
Quite the opposite. Falwell is a Hell Beast dragging them down with him.
Just because I love Hitchens...
“If you gave [Jerry] Falwell an enema he could be buried in a matchbox.”

. . .
“I think it’s a pity there isn’t a hell for him to go to... The empty life of this ugly little charlatan proves only one thing: that you can get away with the most extraordinary offenses to morality and to truth in this country if you’ll just get yourself called Reverend. Who would, even at your network, have invited on such a little toad to tell us that the attacks of September 11th were the result of our sinfulness and were God’s punishment if they hadn’t got some kind of clerical qualification. People like that should be out in the street, shouting and hollering with a cardboard sign and selling pencils from a cup.”
. . .
Coup de grace (rivaling, perhaps besting, HST's epic Nixon obituary):
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...sed_fraud.html

"The discovery of the carcass of Jerry Falwell on the floor of an obscure office in Virginia has almost zero significance, except perhaps for two categories of the species labeled "credulous idiot." The first such category consists of those who expected Falwell (and themselves) to be bodily raptured out of the biosphere and assumed into the heavens, leaving pilotless planes and driverless trucks and taxis to crash with their innocent victims as collateral damage. This group is so stupid and uncultured that it may perhaps be forgiven. It is so far "left behind" that almost its only pleasure is to gloat at the idea of others being abandoned in the same condition.

"The second such category is of slightly more importance, because it consists of the editors, producers, publicists, and a host of other media riffraff who allowed Falwell to prove, almost every week, that there is no vileness that cannot be freely uttered by a man whose name is prefaced with the word Reverend. Try this: Call a TV station and tell them that you know the Antichrist is already on earth and is an adult Jewish male. See how far you get. Then try the same thing and add that you are the Rev. Jim-Bob Vermin. "Why, Reverend, come right on the show!" What a fool Don Imus was. If he had paid the paltry few bucks to make himself a certified clergyman, he could be jeering and sneering to the present hour.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:55 PM   #2502
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Re: Way less fun than old times

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Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
A friend is someone from this board? Apparently I don't know what that means.

TM
Have these tragedies befallen someone we know from here? I didn't see the posting, but what a horror.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:59 PM   #2503
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Just because I love Hitchens...
“If you gave [Jerry] Falwell an enema he could be buried in a matchbox.”

. . .
“I think it’s a pity there isn’t a hell for him to go to... The empty life of this ugly little charlatan proves only one thing: that you can get away with the most extraordinary offenses to morality and to truth in this country if you’ll just get yourself called Reverend. Who would, even at your network, have invited on such a little toad to tell us that the attacks of September 11th were the result of our sinfulness and were God’s punishment if they hadn’t got some kind of clerical qualification. People like that should be out in the street, shouting and hollering with a cardboard sign and selling pencils from a cup.”
. . .
Coup de grace (rivaling, perhaps besting, HST's epic Nixon obituary):
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...sed_fraud.html

"The discovery of the carcass of Jerry Falwell on the floor of an obscure office in Virginia has almost zero significance, except perhaps for two categories of the species labeled "credulous idiot." The first such category consists of those who expected Falwell (and themselves) to be bodily raptured out of the biosphere and assumed into the heavens, leaving pilotless planes and driverless trucks and taxis to crash with their innocent victims as collateral damage. This group is so stupid and uncultured that it may perhaps be forgiven. It is so far "left behind" that almost its only pleasure is to gloat at the idea of others being abandoned in the same condition.

"The second such category is of slightly more importance, because it consists of the editors, producers, publicists, and a host of other media riffraff who allowed Falwell to prove, almost every week, that there is no vileness that cannot be freely uttered by a man whose name is prefaced with the word Reverend. Try this: Call a TV station and tell them that you know the Antichrist is already on earth and is an adult Jewish male. See how far you get. Then try the same thing and add that you are the Rev. Jim-Bob Vermin. "Why, Reverend, come right on the show!" What a fool Don Imus was. If he had paid the paltry few bucks to make himself a certified clergyman, he could be jeering and sneering to the present hour.
I think those are all about the current Falwell's father, who was a peach compared to this lemon.
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:05 PM   #2504
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Re: Way less fun than old times

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Have these tragedies befallen someone we know from here? I didn't see the posting, but what a horror.
No, from a different source of imaginary friends.
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:16 PM   #2505
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
I don’t like having to listen to people like you, or your conservative analogues. I feel like I lose IQ points in the process.
Please stop listening then. You're dangerously low.

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