LawTalkers  

Go Back   LawTalkers > General Discussion > Politics

» Site Navigation
 > FAQ
» Online Users: 218
0 members and 218 guests
No Members online
Most users ever online was 4,499, 10-26-2015 at 08:55 AM.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-08-2018, 04:48 PM   #3976
ThurgreedMarshall
[intentionally omitted]
 
ThurgreedMarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 26,326
Re: Color-blind Nationalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
Trump doesn't pretend to be color-blind. The real racism is the race consciousness that gets in the way of implicit white supremacy.
? Really. The "least racist person you know" never pretends to be color-blind?

In the instance I cited, he was employing a defensive device based on the use of color-blindness as a way of avoiding engaging in actual conversation about the real racism he exhibited and about which he was being questioned. This is why I seized on that example.

TM
ThurgreedMarshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 05:00 PM   #3977
Hank Chinaski
Proud Holder-Post 200,000
 
Hank Chinaski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Corner Office
Posts: 84,053
Re: Color-blind Nationalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
It is the ultimate extension of "both side-ism",
Before Charlottesville I had never heard of "both sideism." I feel Trump popularized it,at least, maybe invented it, at least as applied to Nazis.
__________________
Tan and fit!!!
Hank Chinaski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 05:00 PM   #3978
Tyrone Slothrop
Moderasaurus Rex
 
Tyrone Slothrop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 30,259
Re: Color-blind Nationalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
First, I think you are the only person who would describe your take on things as "entirely logical."
You can take a bunch of screwed-up inputs and process them in a way that is entirely logical, and you will end up with a bunch of screwed-up outputs.
__________________
“Faced with the choice between changing one’s mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof”
- John Kenneth Galbraith
Tyrone Slothrop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 05:03 PM   #3979
Tyrone Slothrop
Moderasaurus Rex
 
Tyrone Slothrop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 30,259
Re: Color-blind Nationalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
? Really. The "least racist person you know" never pretends to be color-blind?

In the instance I cited, he was employing a defensive device based on the use of color-blindness as a way of avoiding engaging in actual conversation about the real racism he exhibited and about which he was being questioned. This is why I seized on that example.

TM
I think we are talking past each other. Trump doesn't even try to pretend to be color-blind. People who pretend to be color-blind understand that there is a principle of color blindness that other people believe in, and are trying to internalize that principle to at least some extent. Trump does not give a sh*t about principles, color-blindness or otherwise.

I agree that he was using a defensive device. I think he was just repeating something he'd heard to duck a question.
__________________
“Faced with the choice between changing one’s mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof”
- John Kenneth Galbraith
Tyrone Slothrop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 05:09 PM   #3980
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Registered User
 
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 18,849
Re: Color-blind Nationalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
In general, Trump doesn't have beliefs or principles, he has wants, needs and urges, and what he says reflects the latter, not the former. But this is one subject where he comes pretty close to having actual beliefs. Still, I would say that he is more using things he has heard other people say to avoid a question in the moment, rather than trying to express an idea.

It amazes me that people still look for some deeper principle behind what he says.
You can say this about some things, like his position on trade or health care, but I really do think he has been profoundly and devotedly racist consistently throughout his business and political careers.
__________________
A wee dram a day!
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 05:09 PM   #3981
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Registered User
 
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Government Yard in Trenchtown
Posts: 18,849
Re: Color-blind Nationalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Before Charlottesville I had never heard of "both sideism." I feel Trump popularized it,at least, maybe invented it, at least as applied to Nazis.
Man, you should actually read what Sebby has to say more carefully sometimes.
__________________
A wee dram a day!
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 05:10 PM   #3982
ThurgreedMarshall
[intentionally omitted]
 
ThurgreedMarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 26,326
Re: Color-blind Nationalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
I think we are talking past each other. Trump doesn't even try to pretend to be color-blind. People who pretend to be color-blind understand that there is a principle of color blindness that other people believe in, and are trying to internalize that principle to at least some extent. Trump does not give a sh*t about principles, color-blindness or otherwise.

I agree that he was using a defensive device. I think he was just repeating something he'd heard to duck a question.
No argument here. I didn't bring it up to probe the depths of Trumps racism or his understanding of anything at all. I brought it up as example of how people use it to get out from under having any meaningful conversation about something they've said or believe.

To be clear, I think that everyone who professes to be color-blind is completely full of shit. It is absolutely impossible to be color-blind in this country. Hell, even the people who argue that they are striving for it do it to get out of confronting the actual reality of race in this country. They aren't even fooling themselves.

TM
ThurgreedMarshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 05:19 PM   #3983
Pretty Little Flower
Moderator
 
Pretty Little Flower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Flower
Posts: 7,924
Re: Color-blind Nationalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
It amazes me that people still look for some deeper principle behind what he says.
I feel this way about Sebastian.
__________________
Minister of New New Super Heavy Funk.

I am not sorry.
Pretty Little Flower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 05:37 PM   #3984
LessinSF
Wearing the cranky pants
 
LessinSF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pulling your finger
Posts: 6,642
Re: God damn it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
“People are wonderful. I love individuals. I hate groups of people. I hate a group of people with a 'common purpose'. 'Cause pretty soon they have little hats. And armbands. And fight songs. And a list of people they're going to visit at 3am. So, I dislike and despise groups of people but I love individuals. Every person you look at; you can see the universe in their eyes, if you're really looking.” - Carlin
Why is it I hate people, but like get-togethers? - LessinSF
__________________
Boogers!
LessinSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 05:38 PM   #3985
LessinSF
Wearing the cranky pants
 
LessinSF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pulling your finger
Posts: 6,642
Re: We are all Slave now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Would one be misdandrist when saying the following to colleagues after dealing with annoying men:

1. "Fucking midget with a Napoleon Complex..."
2. "Typical douche."
3. "Casper Milquetoast... No fucking balls."
4. "Fragile male ego..."
5. "Two assholes seeing who has the bigger dick..."

We all use those quite often, I'm sure, as infuriating men fuck up every decent work week at least to some small extent.

I'm "woke" on the issue of not using "bitch" to describe nasty women as it's unfair. But I am never giving up the right to judge men based on their sex. If there's a #hetoo, I'm moving to South America.
But will you say "Long time, no see?"
__________________
Boogers!
LessinSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 05:41 PM   #3986
Tyrone Slothrop
Moderasaurus Rex
 
Tyrone Slothrop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 30,259
Re: Color-blind Nationalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
You can say this about some things, like his position on trade or health care, but I really do think he has been profoundly and devotedly racist consistently throughout his business and political careers.
Sure, but it's more like an urge or need than any sort of principled belief. He doesn't make any sort of effort to articulate any kind of ethos around it, not even a white supremacist one. (Say what you will about National Socialism, at least it was an ethos.)
__________________
“Faced with the choice between changing one’s mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof”
- John Kenneth Galbraith
Tyrone Slothrop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 07:17 PM   #3987
sebastian_dangerfield
Moderator
 
sebastian_dangerfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 23,023
Re: Color-blind Nationalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
No argument here. I didn't bring it up to probe the depths of Trumps racism or his understanding of anything at all. I brought it up as example of how people use it to get out from under having any meaningful conversation about something they've said or believe.

To be clear, I think that everyone who professes to be color-blind is completely full of shit. It is absolutely impossible to be color-blind in this country. Hell, even the people who argue that they are striving for it do it to get out of confronting the actual reality of race in this country. They aren't even fooling themselves.

TM
Certainty, even stridently offered, ain’t proof. Plenty of people are striving for it for legitimate reasons.

And you heard this from the only person here more cynical than you.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
sebastian_dangerfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 07:24 PM   #3988
sebastian_dangerfield
Moderator
 
sebastian_dangerfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 23,023
Re: Color-blind Nationalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
You can take a bunch of screwed-up inputs and process them in a way that is entirely logical, and you will end up with a bunch of screwed-up outputs.
This place is 50% emotion, 50% logic. Everybody’d admit it privately after a couple drinks. But this forum doesn’t allow that. Part of it is the loss of context in this medium. It’s a problem with loose digital communication generally. Confusion accruing from it being part conversation, part formal writing all in the same expression.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.

Last edited by sebastian_dangerfield; 11-08-2018 at 07:33 PM..
sebastian_dangerfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 07:26 PM   #3989
sebastian_dangerfield
Moderator
 
sebastian_dangerfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 23,023
Re: God damn it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LessinSF View Post
Why is it I hate people, but like get-togethers? - LessinSF
I share a love of hors d’oeuvres.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
sebastian_dangerfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 07:31 PM   #3990
sebastian_dangerfield
Moderator
 
sebastian_dangerfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monty Capuletti's gazebo
Posts: 23,023
Re: Color-blind Nationalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
You can say this about some things, like his position on trade or health care, but I really do think he has been profoundly and devotedly racist consistently throughout his business and political careers.
I think he’s deeply hierarchical, and the hierarchy he believes should govern is the privileged one where rich people can do as they like and only street crime is prosecuted.

He’s a standard issue old rich white dude.
__________________
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
sebastian_dangerfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.0.1

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:00 AM.