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Old 08-10-2017, 11:26 AM   #1516
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
But let's say you and I lived in WV, in an economic dead zone. Couldn't you make the same argument to me about Donald Trump? "You have a duty to vote for him because he's the only choice that might help us."
You drooling imbecile, you still don't get that he's not going to help them??
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:37 AM   #1517
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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You drooling imbecile, you still don't get that he's not going to help them??
We're talking pre-election assumptions, jackass.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:38 AM   #1518
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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What a crock of shit. What is Trump going to do for WVa?
Facepalm.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:45 AM   #1519
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
I have no idea myself; I don't know much about NK. But it's possible for people to hate many others, so just because they have good reason to hate their government doesn't mean we should assume they have some latent fondness for us. One's enemy's enemy is not, contrary to Confucius, always one's friend. But I have trouble believing a bunch of people from across an ocean can ever be seen as "liberators".

Any sensible person with a basic knowledge of the Middle East knew we were wading into a swamp with the invasion, all you need to do is mutter "Sykes Picot" and you know you've got a problem. And the more you know the worse it seems. Even in retrospect, I can't figure out what the mission was, something we should have known going in.
I don't think we'd be seen positively by most of NK. I'm just guessing it might be better than Iraq.

Agreed on everything noted in your second paragraph. But amazingly, where there was a chance perhaps it wouldn't be a total mess, Bremmer ensured a complete meltdown. It is mind boggling. Hussein warned in advance that the Baathists would fight to the death if faced with loss of power. So what'd we do? Throw them all out of power, and purge them from the military, eliminating all possibility of a deal. Great job, Bremmy.

And didn't Bush then give Bremmer the Medal of Freedom? Seriously, Idiocracy.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:03 PM   #1520
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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But amazingly, where there was a chance perhaps it wouldn't be a total mess
There wasn't, really, because there was no plan at all about what was going to happen.

Bremmer then made it all worse too, but we were screwed from the outset.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:35 PM   #1521
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I don't think we'd be seen positively by most of NK. I'm just guessing it might be better than Iraq.

Agreed on everything noted in your second paragraph. But amazingly, where there was a chance perhaps it wouldn't be a total mess, Bremmer ensured a complete meltdown. It is mind boggling. Hussein warned in advance that the Baathists would fight to the death if faced with loss of power. So what'd we do? Throw them all out of power, and purge them from the military, eliminating all possibility of a deal. Great job, Bremmy.

And didn't Bush then give Bremmer the Medal of Freedom? Seriously, Idiocracy.

There was zero chance it would not be mess.

And more of the bad decisions have to fall on Bush, Rumsfeld and the Generals than Bremer; Bremer (remember, it's one "m" for Paul Bremer and two for the very different Ian Bremmer) came in with the charge of de-Baathification, he was just executing on a decision others made. His predecessor saw it as a mistake and told everyone it was a mistake, and got removed for it.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:37 PM   #1522
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Facepalm.
Well, what will he do for them? Bring back coal? (sound of riotous laughter) Help with the opioid crisis? (Oh, dear God, crack me up!) Reduce taxes on working people?

Ain't nothing he's going to do for them. Nothing at all.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:12 PM   #1523
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Re: The Google Manifesto

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You do realize I was simply ridiculing what Damore wrote, right? If you missed that, might want to adjust the meds a bit again.
Neidemeyer: Dead. Irony: Dead.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:13 PM   #1524
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Why do you say this? Has someone with a lot of knowledge of North Korea indicated they think this?
I bet an awful lot of them are brainwashed. If North Korea's government evaporated tomorrow, South Korea would have a nightmarish problem.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:14 PM   #1525
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Credit to you for having the balls to say it. I can respect that.

But let's say you and I lived in WV, in an economic dead zone. Couldn't you make the same argument to me about Donald Trump? "You have a duty to vote for him because he's the only choice that might help us."

The "obligation" you note changes based on location, background, socioeconomic status, etc. It's relative, based on a laddering of priorities that changes as one moves around the country.

An "obligation" so relative (unless you believe a buffoon like Trump an existential threat to democracy, which is a hysterical view) isn't really an obligation. It's a person with one set of priorities telling someone else who might have a different set what to do.

Trump hasn't changed my life much, and nor would've Hillary. I didn't owe the Rust Belt Forgotten a duty to vote for Trump, and I didn't owe any of my neighbors a duty to vote for Hillary.
No one else was talking about obligation. That was your word. Those scare quotes are around something that you said.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:19 PM   #1526
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Pre-election, I was accosted by Right leaners about how Trump was the only acceptable choice because of the Supreme Court. There are a lot of persuasive arguments there. Garland seemed fine to me, but the possibility of additional appointments creating a long term left-leaning court was disturbing. (I'm of the belief we're already brutally overlawyered, over-regulated, and it's bad both culturally and economically.)
I have come to think that the importance of control over the Supreme Court is way overstated, especially to partisans and lawyers. But even if you accept that control over the Supreme Court is important for some reasons, the reason that you think the Supreme Court is important is absolutely overstated. If (if) we are over-lawyered and over-regulated, it's not because of decisions that the Supreme Court made, and it's not going to change because Neil Gorsuch is on the court instead of Merrick Garland.

Once again, you reveal a strong affinity for conservative arguments, and and uncanny ability to try to dress them up in reasons that might be plausible to non-conservatives. You probably could make some money with that skill.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:21 PM   #1527
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Even in retrospect, I can't figure out what the mission was, something we should have known going in.
In retrospect, the mission was to persuade regimes like North Korea's that they needed nuclear weapons to deter us from removing them by force, like we did with Iraq, and later Libya.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:27 PM   #1528
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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In retrospect, the mission was to persuade regimes like North Korea's that they needed nuclear weapons to deter us from removing them by force, like we did with Iraq, and later Libya.
Good point.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:30 PM   #1529
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
Well, what will he do for them? Bring back coal? (sound of riotous laughter) Help with the opioid crisis? (Oh, dear God, crack me up!) Reduce taxes on working people?

Ain't nothing he's going to do for them. Nothing at all.
I got it. You're preaching to the choir there.

But the facepalm is because we were talking about what a coal miner in WV assumed prior to election. Those poor bastards either believed Trump, or assumed that any faint glimmer of hope was better than no hope at all.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:33 PM   #1530
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I got it. You're preaching to the choir there.

But the facepalm is because we were talking about what a coal miner in WV assumed prior to election. Those poor bastards either believed Trump, or assumed that any faint glimmer of hope was better than no hope at all.
And people think North Koreans might be brainwashed.
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