Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Why do men want to control women? If we're to judge from history, including just by way of example, the sex slavery trade that still exists today and #metoo, it seems men want to compel women to have sex with them. (Yes, there are other reasons, but sex seems the majority one.) Has it never occurred to these control freaks that this exact effort, with all of its Victorian/Puritan/Fundamentalist underpinnings, is what causes women not to have sex with them?

My cynical and not terribly informed take, being a heathen with no faith, is that it's comes from a pretty straight forward means of establishing control over a mass of people. People, being animals, have an evolutionarily-driven desire to fuck. It may be one of the only truly universal (yes, I see you asexual community, bear with me) human impulses, at least that's not part of the "keep you alive" processes. What better way to convince the maximum number of people that they are bad than to demonize their natural impulses. See, you are a sinner and you need the teaching of my faith.

It's a short step from you're a sinner because of your desire to that other person is an even worse sinner, or worse, is a temptress leading you astray.

So, yeah, a big scheme of control to get butts in seats is my sophisticated theory that also craps on all of your faiths. Because I'm a nice guy.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

whatever the fuck his other great ideas supposedly are? I don't buy it.

He was going to make things better for white working class "victims" of trade and immigration...

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Why doesn't Trump just own his racism? Why does he feel a need to hide it?

I think it goes back to the J Smooth thing about the fight over whether someone is a racist overwhelms the actual racist thing that he or she said/did. For most people, being labeled a racist is one of the worst things one could be tagged with. So they fight the hypo with every ounce of their being, dragging out their black "friends," saying like they always hire latinx because they're hard workers, or mentioning that the Vietnamese (he's Korean, but really he's just from Jersey) guy on the train always laughs at his jokes. And then they start parsing, like they did this morning, saying well, even if I did say horribly offensive and racist thing, it really wasn't racist.

I'd love someone to really drag out that particular argument, because I'm pretty sure that he thinks West Virginia and North Dakota are shitholes too, and most of the rural towns that voted for him all across the country.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

When you say that you don't think we should allow people from shithole countries (all the countries where black people live) into the U.S, and instead suggest that we should let more people in from Norway (where no black people live), I'm not sure it is accurate to say that you are "hiding" your racism. It's like hiding an elephant behind a dandelion. You can point to the dandelion all you want, but everybody sees the elephant.

Right. My question is, why even try pointing to the dandelion? Why not just own the elephant?

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

I think it goes back to the J Smooth thing about the fight over whether someone is a racist overwhelms the actual racist thing that he or she said/did. For most people, being labeled a racist is one of the worst things one could be tagged with. So they fight the hypo with every ounce of their being, dragging out their black "friends," saying like they always hire latinx because they're hard workers, or mentioning that the Vietnamese (he's Korean, but really he's just from Jersey) guy on the train always laughs at his jokes. And then they start parsing, like they did this morning, saying well, even if I did say horribly offensive and racist thing, it really wasn't racist.

I think that's try for most people, but most people don't thrive so much on asserting their own dominance as he does. For Trump, I really don't think that being labeled a racist is one of the worst things he could be tagged with, far from it. There are things (germs, losing, etc.) that viscerally bother him. I don't think being called a racist is one of them. And he delights in disregarding elite opinion on some many other topics.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Right. My question is, why even try pointing to the dandelion? Why not just own the elephant?



I think that's try for most people, but most people don't thrive so much on asserting their own dominance as he does. For Trump, I really don't think that being labeled a racist is one of the worst things he could be tagged with, far from it. There are things (germs, losing, etc.) that viscerally bother him. I don't think being called a racist is one of them. And he delights in disregarding elite opinion on some many other topics.

Just an observation, you are posting more and more typos. Is everything okay? We are worried.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Just an observation, you are posting more and more typos. Is everything okay? We are worried.

I've been drinking less. Perhaps that's the problem.

[SEC_Chick]

What kills me about Trump is the damage he is doing to a core conservative message. Some of the countries may be s***holes. But the implication that the people there are anything other than victims of corrupt regimes (and in some cases those corrupt regimes are aided by the US at the expense of their people) and are thus s***hole people runs counter to the principle of the equality of human dignity, and is also counter to the principle of the limitlessness of human potential. You can make a conservative case for merit based immigration, but the whole point of it is that you then look at the individuals for who they are, not where they come from.

I might have been amused by the fact that the MAGA cult members spent yesterday defending the comment, when they were supposed to run the fake news route, but the debasement of core conservative principles makes me sad.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I've been drinking less. Perhaps that's the problem.

I'm only drinking on Friday/Saturday nights for the entire month of January and it's the worst decision ever made. EVER. Even worse than that one time I agreed to meet Thurgreed for coffee.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Right. My question is, why even try pointing to the dandelion? Why not just own the elephant?

Because elephants are fat and he is self conscious about his body after all the golf photos?

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

I'm only drinking on Friday/Saturday nights for the entire month of January and it's the worst decision ever made. EVER. Even worse than that one time I agreed to meet Thurgreed for coffee.

Dissent. You can drink your ass off in February and your January abstinence will be a hazy memory. But you can NEVER undo that coffee date.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

What kills me about Trump is the damage he is doing to a core conservative message. Some of the countries may be s***holes. But the implication that the people there are anything other than victims of corrupt regimes (and in some cases those corrupt regimes are aided by the US at the expense of their people) and are thus s***hole people runs counter to the principle of the equality of human dignity, and is also counter to the principle of the limitlessness of human potential. You can make a conservative case for merit based immigration, but the whole point of it is that you then look at the individuals for who they are, not where they come from.

I might have been amused by the fact that the MAGA cult members spent yesterday defending the comment, when they were supposed to run the fake news route, but the debasement of core conservative principles makes me sad.

I think commitment to the equality of human dignity and the limitlessness of human potential is excellent, and more power to people who believe in those things, but they're going to need to find a new brand for it, because "conservative" is now being used by a lot of people who don't share those commitments and are pretty committed to other things instead.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Dissent. You can drink your ass off in February and your January abstinence will be a hazy memory. But you can NEVER undo that coffee date.

I only know Thurgreed from basketball. He wants to take EVERY SHOT, literally! I can't imagine have espresso with him, or being in a bar.

[SEC_Chick]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I think commitment to the equality of human dignity and the limitlessness of human potential is excellent, and more power to people who believe in those things, but they're going to need to find a new brand for it, because "conservative" is now being used by a lot of people who don't share those commitments and are pretty committed to other things instead.

I know.

Conservatism was always the subset of the Republican party with which I most identified. When Trump came along the #NeverTrumpers were generally the ideological conservatives, and we all stopped identifying as Republican. Now the label of conservatism is soiled as well, generally by people who don't even understand the difference. There are now some references to affiliation with "traditional ideological conservatism" to distinguish it from Trumpism, but the label issue hasn't been resolved. I hate that Trump has now painted conservatives with the exact same brush of identity politics I have always abhorred on the left.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

Dissent. You can drink your ass off in February and your January abstinence will be a hazy memory. But you can NEVER undo that coffee date.

He called me fat.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?

He called me fat.

That will haunt you well after you have forgotten that you even embarked upon your ill-advised January partial-teatotalling experiment.