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Old 02-14-2018, 04:05 PM   #4621
ferrets_bueller
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Good afternoon.

I am an aging baby boomer, who also runs a 40 person enterprise, I have a total of four officers, including myself. The profile of these four people demonstrates that there are two men, and two women. One is African American, who just replaced a Mexican American. One is gay, and one is Asian American. One is a veteran.

There are four junior officers. Two men, two women.

So I think we ring most of the bells on diversity. I bring this up because the entity has always followed one and only one principle on hiring and promotions: Hire or promote the most qualified individual. Period.

Here is another corporate guy of my acquaintance, who take a more pro-active role, in a much larger company. I submit he is doing it right. I'd be interested if anyone disagrees.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/b...rd-hudson.html
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:11 PM   #4622
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I think it's not such a bad idea.
Please tell me you're kidding.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:19 PM   #4623
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by ferrets_bueller View Post
Good afternoon.

I am an aging baby boomer, who also runs a 40 person enterprise, I have a total of four officers, including myself. The profile of these four people demonstrates that there are two men, and two women. One is African American, who just replaced a Mexican American. One is gay, and one is Asian American. One is a veteran.

There are four junior officers. Two men, two women.

So I think we ring most of the bells on diversity. I bring this up because the entity has always followed one and only one principle on hiring and promotions: Hire or promote the most qualified individual. Period.https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/b...rd-hudson.html
This is a consistent refrain from those who push back on diversity efforts. [And here is where I will insert that I am no longer addressing your approach or criticizing you.] When one is truly looking for talent and has solved one's implicit bias and confirmation bias issues which necessarily influence one's perception of who is the most qualified individual, then I suppose it's very easy to put together a diverse senior staff and board.

However, there are a number of problems with "Hire or promote the most qualified individual." First, when it comes to initial hiring to mid-level staffing to executive level promotions to lateral hiring, there are tons of biases that affect the determination of who is "most qualified." As an example, a practice group at the firm was seeking a senior-level associate in the lateral market last year. The firm called their usual headhunters and asked for candidates. One of the partners in the group sits on the diversity committee, and after receiving resumes for nothing but white candidates asked the headhunters to find some diverse candidates. Within a week, they presented her with six highly qualified diverse candidates, 2 or 3 of whom were considerably more qualified than the candidates in the group they were previously presented with. They hired someone diverse and asked their headhunter why they had to specifically request qualified diverse candidates. Response?: <<Shrug.>> "We didn't know you were looking for diverse candidates." No acknowledgment that initially they specifically requested the most qualified candidates, which should include fucking everyone. This is what we're facing.

Second, how do you determine what "most qualified" is? Is it someone who went to Choate, Harvard, Harvard and started their career at Wachtell? Or is it someone who went to a shitty public school, got a scholarship to a state school, moved on to a second tier law school, but placed high in their class, and started working at a smaller firm and had tons of responsibility from day 1? I sit on the hiring committee here and the ones who constantly push for the Harvard types (who aren't going to accept our offer anyway) didn't fucking go to Harvard. They don't even understand what makes them qualified. But they want a kid who cruised through Harvard and probably got in because they're a legacy over a kid from BU who absolutely killed themselves their whole lives and excelled at a lower ranked school.

Third, every single partner who we have to talk to about hiring diverse students, using diverse associates, or promoting diverse candidates, immediately respond with, "Why shouldn't I go with the most qualified person?" It's shorthand for "the diverse person isn't qualified somehow" even though that person has never even given that person a look.

So, congratulations on having a diverse senior team. (Seriously.) That's pretty cool. But I will tell you that this kind of mechanical, "most qualified" response when it comes to diversity initiatives is often one of the hurdles to be overcome when making progress.

TM

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Old 02-14-2018, 05:37 PM   #4624
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

On another horrific day in America, we all should understand that conservatives and Republicans have a plan to make us safer from school shootings. The plan is to encourage private gun ownership to deter shootings and to enable potential victims to return fire. On days like today, we see how well that works in reducing fatalities and in making children, parents and everyone else feel safer.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:39 PM   #4625
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Please tell me you're kidding.
If the basic idea is to let small businesses have the same access to immigrant labor as larger, sophisticated businesses, and to let more people have access to immigrant labor of different sorts in the way that some affluent people have access to au pairs, sounds good. Obviously you'd want to make sure that immigrants don't get exploited by their employer, but legal immigration is much, much better that way than illegal immigration is.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:10 PM   #4626
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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On another horrific day in America, we all should understand that conservatives and Republicans have a plan to make us safer from school shootings. The plan is to encourage private gun ownership to deter shootings and to enable potential victims to return fire. On days like today, we see how well that works in reducing fatalities and in making children, parents and everyone else feel safer.
Was there any real movement since the Brady bill? Was that Dem inspired? The Dems have had the congress and White house several times since. What did they do? That nothing will happen today doesn't mean something monumental would happen is only we had President D and that sweet D congress. The worst part is making it political instead of simply something we should not have to endure.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:40 AM   #4627
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Was there any real movement since the Brady bill? Was that Dem inspired? The Dems have had the congress and White house several times since. What did they do? That nothing will happen today doesn't mean something monumental would happen is only we had President D and that sweet D congress. The worst part is making it political instead of simply something we should not have to endure.
A relatively small number of gun nuts (some are close relatives) want their guns, really care about the issue, and vote. Most of the country thinks that the gun nuts are crazy and would be happy with gun control, but when Election Day comes they vote on other issues. So the politicians -- mostly Republicans, but some Democrats too -- don't want to cross them. If we put issues to a majority vote, we'd have control. This isn't Athens.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:30 PM   #4628
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

this is unreadable (and not for the normal content reasons) and the only person who can fix it is RT, and we've bored all of the women away
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:45 PM   #4629
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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this is unreadable (and not for the normal content reasons) and the only person who can fix it is RT, and we've bored all of the women away
This response seems to have landed in the right spot. I wonder if it's fixed.

TM
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:10 PM   #4630
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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This response seems to have landed in the right spot. I wonder if it's fixed.

TM
New post. The onliest thing we can do is reply as a new post, maybe copying in rather than quoting?
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:20 PM   #4631
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Question Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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this is unreadable (and not for the normal content reasons) and the only person who can fix it is RT, and we've bored all of the women away
Not following what you're saying, but not having trouble reading anything.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:51 PM   #4632
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I'm not sure what lots of this is intended to mean, but as an example, the Dems pushed ACA through knowing it would piss off lots of voters. The next day why didn't they push through some gun control measures?

There are a lot of issues were you can fault the Rs alone, but both sides live with this one. And I'm talking laws, not Presidential orders they can be reversed after the next guy comes in.
[Looks heavily revised your response. No matter, I think mine still works.]

Yes. It's the Dem's fault too since they didn't have a supermajority when they controlled Congress. Let's ignore all the other bills shot down by Republicans who vote as a fucking block against any form of gun control and who are currently pushing a fucking reciprocity bill (that fell three Senate votes short last time) through Congress.

There are Dems who vote the wrong way on this, but don't piss me off. The worst part is not "making it political." The worst part is Republicans are either gun lunatics, bought and paid for by the NRA, or terrified of losing their job for doing the right thing. It sure as hell is political. And it's fucking disgusting.

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Old 02-15-2018, 01:52 PM   #4633
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Not following what you're saying, but not having trouble reading anything.
Scroll up. There are posts you missed because the site wasn't posting things chronologically.

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Old 02-15-2018, 01:56 PM   #4634
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

I have no idea what happened. I'll look to getting in touch with the host. It looks like the clock is off.
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Old 02-15-2018, 02:26 PM   #4635
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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[Looks heavily revised your response. No matter, I think mine still works.]

Yes. It's the Dem's fault too since they didn't have a supermajority when they controlled Congress. Let's ignore all the other bills shot down by Republicans who vote as a fucking block against any form of gun control and who are currently pushing a fucking reciprocity bill (that fell three Senate votes short last time) through Congress.

There are Dems who vote the wrong way on this, but don't piss me off. The worst part is not "making it political." The worst part is Republicans are either gun lunatics, bought and paid for by the NRA, or terrified of losing their job for doing the right thing. It sure as hell is political. And it's fucking disgusting.

TM
Not modified, response to something from Ty after the first.
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