Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

You have known TM for how many years here? He has no problem being challenged. When someone does it, he expects them to back it up. You don't.

You're scared of him, too, aren't you? It's o.k., we all are. Here's a little secret: I don't even like rap. I don't think it even qualifies as music. It's just some dude talking over somebody else's song. Do you know how much of that shit I have had to listen to just so I can pretend to be a fellow hip hop enthusiast. Well I'm done living in fear.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

You're scared of him, too, aren't you? It's o.k., we all are. Here's a little secret: I don't even like rap. I don't think it even qualifies as music. It's just some dude talking over somebody else's song. Do you know how much of that shit I have had to listen to just so I can pretend to be a fellow hip hop enthusiast. Well I'm done living in fear.

ARE YOU FUCKING CHALLENGING ME?



TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

You're scared of him, too, aren't you? It's o.k., we all are. Here's a little secret: I don't even like rap. I don't think it even qualifies as music. It's just some dude talking over somebody else's song. Do you know how much of that shit I have had to listen to just so I can pretend to be a fellow hip hop enthusiast. Well I'm done living in fear.

When I am walking on an urban sidewalk and I see a black man coming toward me, I cross to the other side because it might be TM.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

When I am walking on an urban sidewalk and I see a black man coming toward me, I cross to the other side because it might be TM.

You're lucky. Imagine living in Minnesota, where he knows people? I can barely muster the courage to call him out for having gone to a cake eater college.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

So, what happens when Trump keeps firing people until he gets to someone willing to fire Mueller? What happens when Trump tries to fire him directly? (I mean aside from Republicans doing nothing besides saying "The President is within his Constitutional rights to fire Mueller"?) Does someone else pick up the investigation? Is it automatically dead? I presume it would be if the reason for firing him would be the act of investigating what the President has deemed a politically-driven witch hunt.

Where are the state attorneys general who Mueller has been sharing information of the investigation with? I haven't heard much about anyone proceeding with investigations such that they could just pick up where he left off with state charges when the time comes. Are they being deferential to the federal charges? Shouldn't those investigations be running parallel?

This article says Mueller could still write a report and covers what could happen after Mueller gets fired: https://www.wired.com/story/heres-wh...fb_onsiteshare

It also says:

Even if there was no successor forthcoming, the case and investigation could and probably would continue on its own as a regular FBI inquiry.

Starting an investigation at the FBI is a formal process, requiring agents to demonstrate evidence of a criminal predicate to move to what’s known as a “full field” investigation, and, similarly, closing an investigation requires a formal decision to “decline” charges. The “Mueller probe” isn’t actually a single case; at this point there are multiple independent investigations underway, including into Paul Manafort and Rick Gates’ former business dealings, into the campaign’s separate dealings with Russian officials, and into possible obstruction of justice around Jim Comey’s firing.

Some of those cases were well underway before Mueller took over—it was, in fact, the early work of investigators that led to the guilty pleas last fall of George Papadopoulos and Michael Flynn—and others have been launched since. All would and could continue without him. Without Mueller, the assigned FBI agents would return to the Washington Field Office and the prosecution would be placed, most likely, under the supervision of either the US attorney in DC or the Eastern District of Virginia, where the court cases are already playing out.

And this bit is especially heartening:

There’s no reason to believe, in fact, that Mueller—who has surrounded himself with some of the most thoughtful minds of the Justice Department, including Michael Dreeban, arguably the country’s top appellate lawyer, whose career has focused on looking down the road at how cases might play out months or even years later—hasn’t been organizing his investigation since day one with the expectation that he’d someday be fired and worked to ensure that this, his final chapter in a lifetime of public service at the Justice Department, won’t be curtailed before it has gotten to what Mueller calls “ground truth.”

Unfortunately it lays out the best way to kill the investigation (replace Sessions who has recused himself because of his involvement and have that person "box" Mueller's investigation in).

TM

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

... then seeing as how more than seven in ten Jews vote for Democrats, Jews vote D.

i was trying to find Pa numbers but cannot. I do see that a higher percentage of Jews voter for Trump "than any R in the last 30 years, besides Romney."

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

For Hank.

Very cool.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

When I am walking on an urban sidewalk and I see a black man coming toward me, I cross to the other side because it might be TM.

Stop worrying. Thurgreed weighs 300 lbs. That's not him walking at you.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

So, what happens when Trump keeps firing people until he gets to someone willing to fire Mueller? What happens when Trump tries to fire him directly? (I mean aside from Republicans doing nothing besides saying "The President is within his Constitutional rights to fire Mueller"?) Does someone else pick up the investigation? Is it automatically dead? I presume it would be if the reason for firing him would be the act of investigating what the President has deemed a politically-driven witch hunt.

Where are the state attorneys general who Mueller has been sharing information of the investigation with? I haven't heard much about anyone proceeding with investigations such that they could just pick up where he left off with state charges when the time comes. Are they being deferential to the federal charges? Shouldn't those investigations be running parallel?

This article says Mueller could still write a report and covers what could happen after Mueller gets fired: https://www.wired.com/story/heres-wh...fb_onsiteshare

It also says:

Even if there was no successor forthcoming, the case and investigation could and probably would continue on its own as a regular FBI inquiry.

Starting an investigation at the FBI is a formal process, requiring agents to demonstrate evidence of a criminal predicate to move to what’s known as a “full field” investigation, and, similarly, closing an investigation requires a formal decision to “decline” charges. The “Mueller probe” isn’t actually a single case; at this point there are multiple independent investigations underway, including into Paul Manafort and Rick Gates’ former business dealings, into the campaign’s separate dealings with Russian officials, and into possible obstruction of justice around Jim Comey’s firing.

Some of those cases were well underway before Mueller took over—it was, in fact, the early work of investigators that led to the guilty pleas last fall of George Papadopoulos and Michael Flynn—and others have been launched since. All would and could continue without him. Without Mueller, the assigned FBI agents would return to the Washington Field Office and the prosecution would be placed, most likely, under the supervision of either the US attorney in DC or the Eastern District of Virginia, where the court cases are already playing out.

And this bit is especially heartening:

There’s no reason to believe, in fact, that Mueller—who has surrounded himself with some of the most thoughtful minds of the Justice Department, including Michael Dreeban, arguably the country’s top appellate lawyer, whose career has focused on looking down the road at how cases might play out months or even years later—hasn’t been organizing his investigation since day one with the expectation that he’d someday be fired and worked to ensure that this, his final chapter in a lifetime of public service at the Justice Department, won’t be curtailed before it has gotten to what Mueller calls “ground truth.”

Unfortunately it lays out the best way to kill the investigation (replace Sessions who has recused himself because of his involvement and have that person "box" Mueller's investigation in).

TM

Not an answer to your question, but it seems to me that the best tool that Mueller and his colleagues have to keep the investigation going is to bring charges against people who aren't Trump, as he has already done. Flynn pled guilty, and Manafort has been indicted. How would a new figure at DOJ justify dropping that case?

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Not an answer to your question, but it seems to me that the best tool that Mueller and his colleagues have to keep the investigation going is to bring charges against people who aren't Trump, as he has already done. Flynn pled guilty, and Manafort has been indicted. How would a new figure at DOJ justify dropping that case?

Yep. The article mentioned that. But wouldn't a Sessions replacement (for example) just push for a quick plea and cut off digging any deeper at that point?

TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

Yep. The article mentioned that. But wouldn't a Sessions replacement (for example) just push for a quick plea and cut off digging any deeper at that point?

TM

I'm just making stuff up, but if Stephen Miller, Hope Hicks, Jared Kushner and Donald Trump, Jr. are indicted for perjury, it might be hard to just take a quick plea. And if DOJ did do that, a Democratic Congress could certainly investigate it and decide it all justified impeachment.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

You have known TM for how many years here? He has no problem being challenged. When someone does it, he expects them to back it up. You don't.

Fuck I don’t.

You hear what you want to and disregard what you don’t want to.

Twenty nine percent of any group not doing something undoes the argument, “all X do this.”

Try telling a jury, “7 out of 10 people in this group do [insert], so we can reasonably generalize that they do it monolithically.”

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I'm just making stuff up, but if Stephen Miller, Hope Hicks, Jared Kushner and Donald Trump, Jr. are indicted for perjury, it might be hard to just take a quick plea. And if DOJ did do that, a Democratic Congress could certainly investigate it and decide it all justified impeachment.

Right. I guess I was limiting my analysis to those already charged because I think Trump is going to try to get rid of Mueller soon.

Democratic House brings impeachment proceedings, Republican Senate (or small majority Dem Senate) votes against or doesn't reach supermajority necessary for conviction. Is it just a political win at that point? A White House so weakened and illegitimate that it's neutered legislatively? I think Trump would be even more dangerous if that were to happen.

TM

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

This falls somewhere in the top 20% of the dumbest shit you've said (which is still pretty impressive).

Clever trick, by the way. If I disagree with people on a board set up to debate topics, then nobody can challenge anything I believe. Ridiculous.

But here's some advice for you: If you don't like being called on your bullshit, stop pulling shit out of your ass.

TM

Trump Investigation: Not going to nail Trump.

Going to look like Iran/Contra. Meanwhile, he’s going to pack the judiciary.

This asshat’s going to impact our history for decades, and the “resistance” is busy masturbating to the notion of Mueller conducting a perp walk that Ain’t Gonna Happen. Ever.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Fuck I don’t.

You hear what you want to and disregard what you don’t want to.

Twenty nine percent of any group not doing something undoes the argument, “all X do this.”

Try telling a jury, “7 out of 10 people in this group do [insert], so we can reasonably generalize that they do it monolithically.”

No one (but you just now) has said "all Jews vote D" or do anything monolithically. You objected to the idea that Jews generally vote for Ds. In my book, 71% of Jews voting for Ds and 24% for Rs is Jews generally voting for Ds. But if you find a contrarian take on that 3-1 ratio compelling, go nuts.