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Old 09-11-2019, 11:01 AM   #3256
ThurgreedMarshall
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Voting against economic self interest is possibly the most contrarian bona fide out there.
You are not a hero. You have convinced yourself that any possibility of short term gains outweighs the long term harms created by a government that wants to destroy government and deprive people of any kind of assistance (including the safety nets currently in place). After convincing yourself of this, you pat yourself on the back for not voting for an outright racist, mental midget, lunatic narcissist.

Everyone you have met, including me, who casts a vote with a mix of their own and our collective interest in mind has made a determination that a government that actually cares for its citizens (and isn't just a police force to protect the person and property rights of the rich) trumps a tax cut because such a vote is a better long-term investment, makes for a more powerful and healthy (figuratively and literally) country, and is an investment in the future of this country in an actual patriotic way.

TM

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Old 09-11-2019, 11:35 AM   #3257
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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Voting against economic self interest is possibly the most contrarian bona fide out there.
You are suspicious of anyone who earnestly believes in anything. No one is earnest about self-enrichment, so economic self-interest appeals to you because it is universally contrarian and anti-earnest. The exception to this may be the Randians, who manage to get earnest about being selfish. I imagine you think that they are full of shit too, so if you were to hang out with a bunch of hard-core Randians you would be challenged to find some other way to be contrarian.
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:37 AM   #3258
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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The how of it, the perhaps randomness of it, pales in comparison to the rejoicing we should all do.

Dipshit wanna-be war criminal. Good riddance. May he now go where he’s suited - Wilford Brimley’s diabeetis product spokesmanship replacement.
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I feel like John Bolton has been asking for war with Iran for such a long time and it’s always been “maybe for Christmas” and then “maybe for your birthday” and then “maybe for graduation” and now it’s just like “no. You can’t have war with Iran” and it’s actually terribly sad.
Robert Farley
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:40 AM   #3259
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
You are not a hero. You have convinced yourself that any possibility of short term gains outweighs the long term harms created by a government that wants to destroy government and deprive people of any kind of assistance (including the safety nets currently in place). After convincing yourself of this, you pat yourself on the back for not voting for an outright racist, mental midget, lunatic narcissist.

Everyone you have met, including me, who casts a vote with a mix of their own and our collective interest in mind has made a determination that a government that actually cares for its citizens (and isn't just a police force to protect the person and property rights of the rich) trumps a tax cut because such a vote is a better long-term investment, makes for a more powerful and healthy (figuratively and literally) country, and is an investment in the future of this country in an actual patriotic way.

TM
I guess I don't understand people who vote out of immediate economic self-interest. If you were going to think that way, you wouldn't bother voting, since the time it takes almost certainly outweighs the chance that your vote will make a difference on the margin. Voting is inherently expressive, a way to take a position about what you care about, and most people care about something beyond that which will enrich them a little more in the short run.
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:00 PM   #3260
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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I guess I don't understand people who vote out of immediate economic self-interest. If you were going to think that way, you wouldn't bother voting, since the time it takes almost certainly outweighs the chance that your vote will make a difference on the margin. Voting is inherently expressive, a way to take a position about what you care about, and most people care about something beyond that which will enrich them a little more in the short run.
I think most people who "vote with their wallet" actually do believe in something. They believe that they are paying for things that others are not and they don't want to. There is nothing you can say to them about collective responsibility or how insurance works or why it's in everyone's interest to have a healthy, educated society. I think a lot of it goes back to who they think is getting the benefit of their taxed dollars. When the narrative was this:



the support for a robust safety net was strong. When Nixon, Reagan, and others switched it to this:



then it became about something entirely different. And this is where we are. We can have an intelligent conversation about government inefficiencies. But almost everyone (that I've ever spoken to) who talks about their tax money being wasted eventually brings up having to pay for the lazy, drug-addicted, crime-prone, takers. And I think we all know what images those words conjure in this country.

So, you're right. Voting is very expressive.

TM
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:05 PM   #3261
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

I am posting this mostly for Hank, who will understand why, but also for anyone else who wants more of a glimpse of Boris Johnson than one gets from the news. And also for anyone who has been to securitization awards.

Jeremy Vine, My Boris Johnson story.
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:54 PM   #3262
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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I am posting this mostly for Hank, who will understand why, but also for anyone else who wants more of a glimpse of Boris Johnson than one gets from the news. And also for anyone who has been to securitization awards.

Jeremy Vine, My Boris Johnson story.
There are storytelling events of many flavors in TCOTU. One was called Sudden Stories. 4 storytellers are tagged. You go up and get a theme NOW tell a story. At the Moth I know the themes for December already. I did Sudden Stories, showed up like Boris, knowing exactly what story to tell, just needing to add a tweak once I hear the theme I was assigned. Everyone thought it was me turning on a dime.

But funny piece, thank you.
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:56 PM   #3263
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

Had a drink at the great man’s bar just now. Beautiful place. I’m simple, I drink Manhattans or just bourbon, but the missus, she is partial to cocktail lists- she suggests the Hamilton.

Will be back for dinner soon.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:16 PM   #3264
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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Had a drink at the great man’s bar just now. Beautiful place. I’m simple, I drink Manhattans or just bourbon, but the missus, she is partial to cocktail lists- she suggests the Hamilton.
Great summer drink!

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Will be back for dinner soon.


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Old 09-11-2019, 05:25 PM   #3265
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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Had a drink at the great man’s bar just now. Beautiful place. I’m simple, I drink Manhattans or just bourbon, but the missus, she is partial to cocktail lists- she suggests the Hamilton.
It comes with a shot, right?
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:37 PM   #3266
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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It comes with a shot, right?
Thrown in the air? Yes.

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Old 09-11-2019, 05:48 PM   #3267
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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I guess I don't understand people who vote out of immediate economic self-interest. If you were going to think that way, you wouldn't bother voting, since the time it takes almost certainly outweighs the chance that your vote will make a difference on the margin.
One of the most successful people I know doesn't vote because he fears it will make him eligible for jury duty. And he also uses your cost/benefit assessment.

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Voting is inherently expressive, a way to take a position about what you care about, and most people care about something beyond that which will enrich them a little more in the short run.
I don't find the messages of politicians to be something I deeply care about because typically, what's promised and what's delivered bear very little resemblance to each other. I'll have to say this for Trump -- he promised crazy, and he's delivered crazy. In a perverse way, he's been "honest."

My voting record is pretty spotty. I generally get most enthused to vote for a senator in my state because there's one who has a pretty decent grasp on finance issues (not too keen about his social positions) and is moderate (crossed over on gun control). The other senator is the goofy son of an ex-governor. The space between his ears is possibly pound cake. ...Maybe angel's food.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:50 PM   #3268
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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This made me check the current odds. I still don't understand why Andrew Yang is in the Top 5. https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/po...-nominee-odds/

LessinBandarSeriBegawan, Brunei
I like him. He's the only guy who's talking about the really serious long term issues.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:01 PM   #3269
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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I think most people who "vote with their wallet" actually do believe in something. They believe that they are paying for things that others are not and they don't want to.
Nah. Mostly it's just greed. The people who get mad about welfare are too dumb to grasp how little of our budget it occupies. "Keep your hands off my medicare" crowd. Angry middle class whiners.

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There is nothing you can say to them about collective responsibility or how insurance works or why it's in everyone's interest to have a healthy, educated society.
I agree in principle, but we aren't going to get that via HC. We only get that when people stop eating shit and Big Junk Food and Big Pharma stop using these poor fucks as ATMs.
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I think a lot of it goes back to who they think is getting the benefit of their taxed dollars. When the narrative was this:

Grapes of Wrath scene photo omitted.

the support for a robust safety net was strong. When Nixon, Reagan, and others switched it to this:

"Welfare mothers" scene omitted.

then it became about something entirely different. And this is where we are. We can have an intelligent conversation about government inefficiencies. But almost everyone (that I've ever spoken to) who talks about their tax money being wasted eventually brings up having to pay for the lazy, drug-addicted, crime-prone, takers. And I think we all know what images those words conjure in this country.
Totally 100% true. Try arguing with one of these Archie Bunkers about how the defense budget is a waste of money. That elicits seriously stupid replies. The same angry middle class people who think they're being swindled by welfare queens love the idea that we're building battleships and aircraft in the most inefficient ways that even Don Rumsfeld said we did not need. When Don Rumsfeld tells Congress the defense budget is a bloated mess, it's a bloated mess.

The people who bitch about paying for others are manipulated, simple. They're not tax voters. They're miserable cranks. The tax voters of consequence do their voting through their accountants and lobbyists.

TM[/QUOTE]
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:31 PM   #3270
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Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same

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It comes with a shot, right?
You weren’t in the room where it’s served
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