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Hank Chinaski
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:17 PM   #3496
sebastian_dangerfield
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Re: We are all Slave now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
That's a very strong post. And I guess I'll just go back to the point that Republicans in the Senate who voted for Kavanaugh could surely have confirmed another nominee with similarly conservative views. And yet it seems like the sorts of biases Somin describes drove them to pick Kavanaugh because they were defending him from Democrats.
Political calculation. Replacing him so late might've pushed vote beyond election.

You've seen Casino.

Old Mobster: "Andy's a good kid, stand up guy."

Other Old Mobster: "I agree. He won't talk."

Remo: "Look... All I'm saying is, 'Why take a chance?' That's just how I think about it..."

I think some of the decision to stand behind BK was thinking like Remo (lock down the win as soon as you can) and Trump thinking a battle over the nominee was good political theatre. In both regards, they were shrewd to do what they did.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:22 PM   #3497
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
ABA is a politically biased organization.
What do you mean?
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:24 PM   #3498
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
It can’t with congress as it now is, but aren’t there staffed offices not politically appointed? What is CBO?
CBO has been repeatedly attacked as biased by conservative Republicans because what it said got in the way of what they wanted to do. It's naive in the extreme to think that conservatives will agree to be constrained by "neutral" agencies.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:30 PM   #3499
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
This isn't con law.
It absolutely is Con Law.

"The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish." Article III, Section 1.

"The President ... by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ... judges of the Supreme Court." Article II, Section 2.

That's it. That's the law we are talking about it. It's not a criminal proceeding. You're applying the rules of a bicycle race at a swim meet. (Which is why you pedal faster and faster and keep sinking.)
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:54 PM   #3500
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
CBO has been repeatedly attacked as biased by conservative Republicans because what it said got in the way of what they wanted to do. It's naive in the extreme to think that conservatives will agree to be constrained by "neutral" agencies.
http://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/20...cans-will-too/ same as it ever was-

attacking CBO (as both parties do when in the majority) only shows the strength of the office's findings- the same would be true with my hypo "Character office findings." Would Trump attack the Character Office if it found Kavanaugh unfit? Of course- would it have given cover to a senator or two to vote no, maybe? But mostly it would provide an avenue for an actual finding and a standard for what that finding means- or should mean.

Just because I ran Sidd off doesn't mean this board is dying for someone new to step into the blinkered troll position- fuck I'm almost at the point of going back and rereading if sebby hasn't been right all along.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:08 PM   #3501
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower View Post
Interesting. I think I understand what you are saying here, but let me see if I can use a hypothetical example and you can tell me if I am tracking you. Suppose someone makes a statement that is demonstrably false. Something like: "Hillary wasn't branded as shrill." Then, suppose someone else does a simple Google search and finds dozens of article discussing the phenomenon of Hillary being branded as shrill. If the first person were to, in your words, try to preserve his original dubious claim via semantic gamesmanship, he might say something completely off the wall like:

"I can cross reference two of just about any words and give you three pages of google links (most of which are regurgitations of the same text from aggregators). 'Ernest Borgnine nude' and 'jalapeno cheesecake' each deliver ten pages of links."

And then he might try to further distract with some childish sign off like: "Try again."

Is this a good illustration of what you are talking about? Instead of admitting he is wrong, the first person digs in and tries to preserve his dubious claim (here, that "Hillary wasn't branded as shrill") by ignoring the substance of the internet search (which is dozens of articles discussing how Hillary was branded as shrill). Instead, he engages in semantic gamesmanship, and tries to reframe the argument to be about something completely unrelated (whether you can generate lots of search hits with with random search terms). This person is not engaging in honest argumentation, because that would require him to admit he was wrong, which he is incapable of doing. So, instead, he tries to "win" the argument using distraction and semantic games so he does not have to admit that his original incorrect assertion was based not on any actual facts, but rather on his own deep-seated (albeit vehemently denied) biases.
careful- this sounds like when Ty didn't know the difference between FSAs and HSAs and was talking out his ass trying to school me- he still hasn't admitted his error.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:11 PM   #3502
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
http://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/20...cans-will-too/ same as it ever was-

attacking CBO (as both parties do when in the majority) only shows the strength of the office's findings- the same would be true with my hypo "Character office findings." Would Trump attack the Character Office if it found Kavanaugh unfit? Of course- would it have given cover to a senator or two to vote no, maybe? But mostly it would provide an avenue for an actual finding and a standard for what that finding means- or should mean.

Just because I ran Sidd off doesn't mean this board is dying for someone new to step into the blinkered troll position- fuck I'm almost at the point of going back and rereading if sebby hasn't been right all along.
The conceit here ignores what underpinned grandma’s warning to never talk politics or religion: It’s Sisyphean.

Of course a lot of my indictments of bias and blindered thinking are right. That’s why I’m being called a conservative. The uncreative bastards need to put everybody in a box, give them an identity to attack. TM is more accurate. I don’t have strong political “beliefs.” And reading the biased thinking of both sides these days, I consider that relativism the only intellectually honest approach.

The right and left deserve nothing but to have their “beliefs” attacked. Then maybe we moderates can rewind to the days when people compromised.

For the record, however, the GOP is more responsible for this sad state of affairs. They allowed their crazies to take over. The Democrats have at least tried to compromise here and there.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:13 PM   #3503
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Re: We are all Slave now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
http://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/20...cans-will-too/ same as it ever was-attacking CBO (as both parties do when in the majority) only shows the strength of the office's findings- the same would be true with my hypo "Character office findings." Would Trump attack the Character Office if it found Kavanaugh unfit? Of course- would it have given cover to a senator or two to vote no, maybe? But mostly it would provide an avenue for an actual finding and a standard for what that finding means- or should mean.

Just because I ran Sidd off doesn't mean this board is dying for someone new to step into the blinkered troll position- fuck I'm almost at the point of going back and rereading if sebby hasn't been right all along.
From the article I linked:

Quote:
It’s normal for politicians to be frustrated with the CBO. It’s a highly respected nonpartisan research group whose estimates of budgetary cost and other effects of legislation are treated as very credible in Washington. That can cause problems for members of Congress and the administration when the numbers don’t come out how they like, and has earned the CBO criticism from Democrats and Republicans alike in the past, some deserved and some not deserved.

What’s not normal is trying to erase the CBO’s formal role in policymaking. The agency normally gets to decide which bills reduce the deficit, meaning they can pass the Senate with a bare majority and avoid a filibuster. That could change this year or next. Senate Republicans got a competing analysis of their health care bill from the Department of Health and Human Services. They’ve also suggested they might do something similar with tax reform. Some House Republicans have even proposed cutting the agency’s staff by 38 percent, and replacing it with an “aggregator” collecting projections from various think tanks.

If that happens, the CBO will be weakened like never before, and face a fight for its own relevance and survival.
I think it would be great to have an independent evaluation of the sort you're suggesting. I just don't think Republicans will ever agree to it.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:26 PM   #3504
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Re: We are all Slave now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
careful- this sounds like when Ty didn't know the difference between FSAs and HSAs and was talking out his ass trying to school me- he still hasn't admitted his error.
That’s fair. I left that door open. And why not? Nobody pops-up a change-up into the center fielder’s glove with a more dramatic swing than Flower. It’s mean to point out the rest of pitches on which he gets caught looking.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:46 PM   #3505
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Of course a lot of my indictments of bias and blindered thinking are right. That’s why I’m being called a conservative.
Repeating stupid conservative talking points doesn't make you conservative.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:51 PM   #3506
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
You are dead wrong if you believe based on a credible accusation alone, and a blanket denial, a nominee should be dinged. That's dangerous thinking.
First, it's not. Nothing bad was going to happen to him.

But second, he lied about things to bolster his blanket denial. Of course he never blacked out, because if he had, it could be he couldn't remember and he needs to be able to say "no", not "I don't remember." That's enough to discredit his denial. Once you've done that...

Finally, no one said credible accusation and blanket denial alone.


Quote:
Agreed on lies, not on temperament.
He as much as threatened partisan retribution from the bench ("what goes around comes around"). That's disqualifying on temperament.

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Old 10-10-2018, 02:52 PM   #3507
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
Political calculation. Replacing him so late might've pushed vote beyond election.
Which would have been bad for the GOP how?
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:54 PM   #3508
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Re: We are all Slave now.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...house_map.html r's picking up seats and it is getting close. I pray to baby jesus the dems take it, but this is not looking so good anymore
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Old 10-10-2018, 03:00 PM   #3509
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by LessinSF View Post
How often has anyone here made a true scientific claim, as opposed to a political, sociological or rhetorical claim? Cite please?
"As far as we know, only Sapiens can talk about entire kinds of entities that they have never seen, touched, or smelled. Legends, myths, gods, and religions appeared for the first time with the Cognitive Revolution. Many animals and human species could previously say ‘Careful! A lion! Thanks to the Cognitive Revolution, Homo sapiens acquired the ability to say. ‘The lion is the guardian spirit of our tribe.’ This ability to speak about fictions is the most unique feature of Sapiens language…You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven."
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Old 10-10-2018, 03:01 PM   #3510
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? View Post
"As far as we know, only Sapiens can talk about entire kinds of entities that they have never seen, touched, or smelled. Legends, myths, gods, and religions appeared for the first time with the Cognitive Revolution. Many animals and human species could previously say ‘Careful! A lion! Thanks to the Cognitive Revolution, Homo sapiens acquired the ability to say. ‘The lion is the guardian spirit of our tribe.’ This ability to speak about fictions is the most unique feature of Sapiens language…You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven."
“Voltaire said about God that ‘there is no God, but don’t tell that to my servant, lest he murder me at night’. Hammurabi would have said the same about his principle of hierarchy, and Thomas Jefferson about human rights. Homo sapiens has no natural rights, just as spiders, hyenas and chimpanzees have no natural rights. But don’t tell that to our servants, lest they murder us at night.”
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