We are all Slave now.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

Or they really care about being free from compelled speech, which is consistent with the NIFLA case this term.

That's not answering my point, which is that the no one is compelling speech (in the sense that a Jehovah's Witness could be compelled to recite the Pledge) when an employee is represented by a union in contractual negotiations. The government requires some of its employees to cut their hair and wear uniforms, but that doesn't raise First Amendment problems either.

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

But if you are in a non Right to Work state, you don't have the option of opting out, no?

If every state were Right to Work, then this wouldn't be an issue. The whole issue is people being compelled to be represented by the union.

Even in what is referred to as a Not Right to Work state, workers are only “compelled” to be represented by a union in collective bargaining. Since the Supreme Court’s Beck decision in 1988, unions cannot force workers to fund the unions political activities.

Not (dad was a proud union man) Bob

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

But if you are in a non Right to Work state, you don't have the option of opting out, no?

If every state were Right to Work, then this wouldn't be an issue. The whole issue is people being compelled to be represented by the union.

I don’t normally respond to the same post twice, SEC, but dont you find it interesting that nearly all of the so-called Right to Work states are in the South? Is that just a coincidence?

No. It is not. They were instituted during the New Deal out of a toxic blend of racisim and anti-Semitism. We can’t let the Bolshivek Jews have control of our factories, and God help the white people who might have to call a Negro his “brother” (a common term for fellow union members).

[Not Bob]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

So yesterday a leading Conservative public intellectual called for vigilantes to shoot reporters. Today there was a mass shooting at a newspaper in Annapolis.

But, see, civility has won because I didn't call either the Conservative intellectual or the shooter a nasty name.

“Avoid unkind generalizations like equating the jailing of ethnic minorities with some malevolent form of fascism.”

From Tips For Staying Civil While Debating Child Prisons.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

That's not answering my point, which is that the no one is compelling speech (in the sense that a Jehovah's Witness could be compelled to recite the Pledge) when an employee is represented by a union in contractual negotiations. The government requires some of its employees to cut their hair and wear uniforms, but that doesn't raise First Amendment problems either.

The military wanting a common look is the same as a public entity needs to compel paying union fees:really? Jesus fuck this place has slipped.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

The military wanting a common look is the same as a public entity needs to compel paying union fees:really?

Of course it isn't. But everyone gets that when you take a job, your employer compels you to do things, even if it's the government, and we don't pretend that those things raise First Amendment issues because we don't like them for other reasons.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Of course it isn't. But everyone gets that when you take a job, your employer compels you to do things, even if it's the government, and we don't pretend that those things raise First Amendment issues because we don't like them for other reasons.

I worked in a government job with a union. We had to be represented, but did not need to pay dues. Why is this case news?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I worked in a government job with a union. We had to be represented, but did not need to pay dues. Why is this case news?

Because people who work for unions don't usually want to work for free.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Because people who work for unions don't usually want to work for free.

Neither do The employees. You okay? Head get bumped recently?

[SEC_Chick]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

So yesterday a leading Conservative public intellectual called for vigilantes to shoot reporters. Today there was a mass shooting at a newspaper in Annapolis.

But, see, civility has won because I didn't call either the Conservative intellectual or the shooter a nasty name.

If I had jumped to the conclusion that the shooting was politically motivated, I think I would feel a bit silly about not waiting for the facts. But only Republicans get shot up at a baseball field or have decapitated animal carcasses left at their front door. So I'm sure it's fine.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

If I had jumped to the conclusion that the shooting was politically motivated, I think I would feel a bit silly about not waiting for the facts. But only Republicans get shot up at a baseball field or have decapitated animal carcasses left at their front door. So I'm sure it's fine.

You know that is not true of course. I need only mention Gabby Giffords.

Back when I worked for the Democratic Party in Boston, we had bomb scares almost every week in our offices. We became pretty inured to them, even though there were a few violent incidents involving different campaign or elected officials at the time. I always assumed it was just part of the turf.

There was some affair where my Republican counterparts were present and I cracked a joke about it, and none of them laughed. Talking to my direct counterpart afterwards (he was actually more high visibility than me because he was about to take a turn as the sacrificial lamb running against Ted Kennedy), I learned they never had any, he thought the joke was out of left field. I do wonder how that conversation would go today, and what the relative level of threats are, but I suspect they are significantly higher in both cases.

Trump rallies picking out and attacking individual media members enable the crazy conservatives like Milo to ratchet it up, and there will be problems. We're lucky no one's been physically hurt so far. We still have another mass shooting to deal with, more gun violence in America.

On a different topic, the eliminate ICE crew does seem to have gone mainstream, what with the letter from ICE special agents calling for its elimination and Kirsten Gillibrand's statement on it. They are obviously an agency that needs to be brought under control, maybe eliminating them and handling those functions still needed under more competent agencies is the way to go.

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

If I had jumped to the conclusion that the shooting was politically motivated, I think I would feel a bit silly about not waiting for the facts. But only Republicans get shot up at a baseball field or have decapitated animal carcasses left at their front door. So I'm sure it's fine.

For someone who is so aggrieved by liberal whining, you play the fragile, thin-skinned, victim-martyr quite persuasively.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

On a different topic, the eliminate ICE crew does seem to have gone mainstream,

what does mainstream mean today?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

If I had jumped to the conclusion that the shooting was politically motivated, I think I would feel a bit silly about not waiting for the facts. But only Republicans get shot up at a baseball field or have decapitated animal carcasses left at their front door. So I'm sure it's fine.

maybe you missed it, but I have a question- you seem to think Trump getting to replace a justice is a good thing? Are you hoping roe is toast? I only ask because I think that makes you unique here- not looking to pick a fight, just fill in my scorecard.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

what does mainstream mean today?

Point taken.

Hard to find the middle of the stream in this swamp.