General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by viet_mom
Yesterday we got report cards and last night was parent-teacher conference.

1. Vietbabe -Sept. b'day (young compared to most in class but 2 other Sept. b'days in class and they are doing fine academically).

2. Catholic kindergarten with 18 kids in her class.

3. Although she is tired b/c no nap anymore, I have always gotten her to do her homework and we haven't missed any school. We read every night and do normal things but not like that character in Parenthood with the flashcards.

4. Report card: highest marks in Self Confidence, Happy, Friendly, Plays Well With Others, Polite (you name it). The only comment is that she's a bit too much of a social butterfly and may be talking while directions are being given by teacher.

5. Conference: teacher showed me her classwork. Not picking up as quickly on phonetics, "math" concepts and such. The teacher seems good. And I always make sure Vietbabe does homework, gets enough sleep, ready for school, all that. So, I think it's not something that can be changed. Teacher thinks she will probably recommend that Vietbabe repeat K and that she really is "that behind" and that 1st grade at that school is particularly challenging. I asked what are the chances that increased help outside school (flash cards and work on weekends with her) would change that but she says it is not likely.

I am so grateful my child is "Happy" and "Self Confident" and "Plays Well With Others." But this morning, I'm upset and teary-eyed even though I know it's "just Kindergarten". Anyone have input? Thank you.

Where I live, the cut off for K is September 1, so VietBabe wouldn't be eligible for K until next year anyway (she turned 5 this September, right?). I think there are lots of states where this is the case, so if she does another year of K next year, she won't be completely out-of-sync with the rest of the world when she goes away to college.

My niece has a September birthday and started K this year just short of her 6th birthday. She seems to be thriving and has no idea that she's maybe a couple of months older than some of her classmates.

I think you want to give VietBabe the best chance for success, and that means she's got to get the basics down before she moves on. If that requires one more year of K, then that's what she should have.

A consultation with a psychologist/psychiatrist who specialized in childhood education may help you make a decision. It may be that this school isn't the right place for her either.

[Oliver_Wendell_Ramone]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
Where I live, the cut off for K is September 1, so VietBabe wouldn't be eligible for K until next year anyway (she turned 5 this September, right?). I think there are lots of states where this is the case, so if she does another year of K next year, she won't be completely out-of-sync with the rest of the world when she goes away to college.

My niece has a September birthday and started K this year just short of her 6th birthday. She seems to be thriving and has no idea that she's maybe a couple of months older than some of her classmates.

I think you want to give VietBabe the best chance for success, and that means she's got to get the basics down before she moves on. If that requires one more year of K, then that's what she should have.

A consultation with a psychologist/psychiatrist who specialized in childhood education may help you make a decision. It may be that this school isn't the right place for her either.

Same here in Oregon. Ruth Bader Ramone is a 9/4 birthday. We thought seriously about petitioning to get her in early, but decided against it. Very happy with the decision. She loved kindergarten, and is now killing 1st grade. Being among the oldest hasn't been a problem at all (she's tall, which worried us a bit, but it turns out she's in a class with lots of tall girls). In her class, at least, it is much easier to tell the kids that are at the young end of the spectram (the late summer birthdays) than it is to identify the older ones.

So don't sweat it; if she repeats, it will put her right where she would have been in lots of places. Plus, as they get older, I figure being at the oldest end of the class, rather than the youngest, gives 'em another year of being a kid.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by viet_mom
Yesterday we got report cards and last night was parent-teacher conference.

1. Vietbabe -Sept. b'day (young compared to most in class but 2 other Sept. b'days in class and they are doing fine academically).

2. Catholic kindergarten with 18 kids in her class.

3. Although she is tired b/c no nap anymore, I have always gotten her to do her homework and we haven't missed any school. We read every night and do normal things but not like that character in Parenthood with the flashcards.

4. Report card: highest marks in Self Confidence, Happy, Friendly, Plays Well With Others, Polite (you name it). The only comment is that she's a bit too much of a social butterfly and may be talking while directions are being given by teacher.

5. Conference: teacher showed me her classwork. Not picking up as quickly on phonetics, "math" concepts and such. The teacher seems good. And I always make sure Vietbabe does homework, gets enough sleep, ready for school, all that. So, I think it's not something that can be changed. Teacher thinks she will probably recommend that Vietbabe repeat K and that she really is "that behind" and that 1st grade at that school is particularly challenging. I asked what are the chances that increased help outside school (flash cards and work on weekends with her) would change that but she says it is not likely.

I am so grateful my child is "Happy" and "Self Confident" and "Plays Well With Others." But this morning, I'm upset and teary-eyed even though I know it's "just Kindergarten". Anyone have input? Thank you.

You know your own kid better than the teacher - if you think the teacher's assessment doesn't match your child's real capabilities, get your child assesseed for the dyslexia, dysgraphia, etc. family of cognitive disabilities, and figure out whether they need some special help. Find the best testers in the area (often affiliated with a teaching hospital), because kids with learning disabilities are often very smart and figure out how to hide them.

If it turns out the answer is yes, your kid does have some disabilities, I can regale you with stories of how our kids, who got such reviews in kindergartern, are now thriving and wowwing their teachers' right and left. If the answer is no, you still may find that the people you deal with in getting the tests have some really useful ideas about kids and learning.

As far as the something that cannot be changed - don't believe it. Lots of stuff can be changed.

A couple other things - sometimes it is just a maturity issue and the extra year really is effective. There is a great book that came out this year called Proust and the Squid by Maryanne Wolf that describes some of the neuroscience behind maturity and learning (also has a couple chapters on dyslexia). Maryanne is one of the people who has worked with our kids. One thing she touches on is all the pre-reading stuff that has an impact if they are not yet ready (for example, if its a neurological readiness issue, better to have a lot of lap reading to the kid so they are making visual connections between words, stories and symbols than a lot of rote flash cards - but rote flash cards can be very useful if they are ready to read but have a form of dysgraphia that makes it hard for them to imprint symbols, like letters). But if its not a readiness issue, all the possibilities for intervention, like Orton-Gillingham reading programs or Wolf's RAV-O program, are hugely more effective when you catch them early, like in Kindergarten. And teachers are heavily pressured not to identify kids who need these services, because it can have a big impact on the school budget, so be careful about trusting your teachers - some don't bend to the pressure, but some just twist themselves up in little balls helping schools deny services.

[viet_mom]

Wow. I did not think these kinds of tests were administered so early. This is Vietbabe's first year in school (her "preschool" was just a daycare and she wasn't there full time anyway and so would have missed any "academic" portions). I have to say that overall, my kid seem sooooooooooooooo young. She is in clothes for an 18 month old, has all her baby teeth, weighs about 25 pounds and is shorter than all the pre-schoolers. She still carries her blankey around, uses a pacifier at night (yes, I know - bad mommy) and takes 2 hour naps on the weekends (she would during the week, but it's not allowed at school). Her schoolmates come over and I see them playing "baby" (with my kid in the cradle). Is it possible she just isn't "mature" enough for academics? She's a mid Sept. b'day (she just turned 5 this past Sept - the same month she started school) but it's possible she is actually an October b'day b/c in her adoption paperwork I can't account for where she spent the month before she was received at the orphanage at the end of October.

I try my best not to keep her a baby but to be honest, I feel like I don't have that "intuitive" thing that other parents seem to have as far as raising their kids and I worry that I'm just SCREWING UP ROYALLY AS A PARENT. I do notice that she IS maturing from year to year (able to do more things, understand more, control herself and all).

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by viet_mom
Wow. I did not think these kinds of tests were administered so early. This is Vietbabe's first year in school (her "preschool" was just a daycare and she wasn't there full time anyway and so would have missed any "academic" portions). I have to say that overall, my kid seem sooooooooooooooo young. She is in clothes for an 18 month old, has all her baby teeth, weighs about 25 pounds and is shorter than all the pre-schoolers. She still carries her blankey around, uses a pacifier at night (yes, I know - bad mommy) and takes 2 hour naps on the weekends (she would during the week, but it's not allowed at school). Her schoolmates come over and I see them playing "baby" (with my kid in the cradle). Is it possible she just isn't "mature" enough for academics? She's a mid Sept. b'day (she just turned 5 this past Sept - the same month she started school) but it's possible she is actually an October b'day b/c in her adoption paperwork I can't account for where she spent the month before she was received at the orphanage at the end of October.

I try my best not to keep her a baby but to be honest, I feel like I don't have that "intuitive" thing that other parents seem to have as far as raising their kids and I worry that I'm just SCREWING UP ROYALLY AS A PARENT. I do notice that she IS maturing from year to year (able to do more things, understand more, control herself and all).

Yes, the tests get earlier every year.

It is VERY possible that she's not yet mature enough - this is the interesting piece in that book I suggested. I'm going to oversimplify, but as kids mature, somewhere in the 4 to 7 time frame (different kids mature differently), specific combinations of brain activity develop so that different parts of the brain build a relationship that combines different skills needed for understanding words and numbers. Interestingly, the patterns are different based on different languages.

Part of it is watching verbal skills as compared to written skills - the verbal comes first, and if you have a kid with great verbal skills who is struggling with learning to read, it's often an indication of dyslexia, but it can just be a need for some more maturity. Somebody with real skill (or a good MRI and cutting edge training) can figure out which is happening. If you catch issues in kindergarten, instead of in 2nd or 3rd grade, where they are usually caught, you get massively more and better results from intervention. On the other hand, if the verbal skills are still developing, it's more likely a maturity thing. We knew our first kid had some learning issues when she was orally capable of making up and reciting complex poetry (for a kid) but couldn't write her own name.

Sorry to prattle on so much. This stuff is a huge part of our lives. I'm a bit of a missionary on it.

[patentparanyc]

Originally posted by viet_mom
Wow. I did not think these kinds of tests were administered so early. This is Vietbabe's first year in school (her "preschool" was just a daycare and she wasn't there full time anyway and so would have missed any "academic" portions). I have to say that overall, my kid seem sooooooooooooooo young. She is in clothes for an 18 month old, has all her baby teeth, weighs about 25 pounds and is shorter than all the pre-schoolers. She still carries her blankey around, uses a pacifier at night (yes, I know - bad mommy) and takes 2 hour naps on the weekends (she would during the week, but it's not allowed at school). Her schoolmates come over and I see them playing "baby" (with my kid in the cradle). Is it possible she just isn't "mature" enough for academics? She's a mid Sept. b'day (she just turned 5 this past Sept - the same month she started school) but it's possible she is actually an October b'day b/c in her adoption paperwork I can't account for where she spent the month before she was received at the orphanage at the end of October.

I try my best not to keep her a baby but to be honest, I feel like I don't have that "intuitive" thing that other parents seem to have as far as raising their kids and I worry that I'm just SCREWING UP ROYALLY AS A PARENT. I do notice that she IS maturing from year to year (able to do more things, understand more, control herself and all).

Okay, I'm coming in this thread cold, but two things. Have you considered the school might not be a good fit for her learning style and outgoing personality? she sounds like a doll face and bright....so maybe it is the school style?

Second, do what is best for her. if maturity wise it will benefit her to repeat then there is only good that will come from that.

Third, I did not know she was adopted, is she? I'm adopted from Korea. if you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Anyway, the important thing to take away from all this is to not feel bad about your parenting skills here. This is not the matter at hand at all. You are a great caring parent it is all about finding a system and a fit for your child that works. YOu should also be your child's advocate. Go to bat for her if you feel she should be promoted.

[dtb]

Originally posted by viet_mom
Yesterday we got report cards and last night was parent-teacher conference.

1. Vietbabe -Sept. b'day (young compared to most in class but 2 other Sept. b'days in class and they are doing fine academically).

2. Catholic kindergarten with 18 kids in her class.

3. Although she is tired b/c no nap anymore, I have always gotten her to do her homework and we haven't missed any school. We read every night and do normal things but not like that character in Parenthood with the flashcards.

4. Report card: highest marks in Self Confidence, Happy, Friendly, Plays Well With Others, Polite (you name it). The only comment is that she's a bit too much of a social butterfly and may be talking while directions are being given by teacher.

5. Conference: teacher showed me her classwork. Not picking up as quickly on phonetics, "math" concepts and such. The teacher seems good. And I always make sure Vietbabe does homework, gets enough sleep, ready for school, all that. So, I think it's not something that can be changed. Teacher thinks she will probably recommend that Vietbabe repeat K and that she really is "that behind" and that 1st grade at that school is particularly challenging. I asked what are the chances that increased help outside school (flash cards and work on weekends with her) would change that but she says it is not likely.

I am so grateful my child is "Happy" and "Self Confident" and "Plays Well With Others." But this morning, I'm upset and teary-eyed even though I know it's "just Kindergarten". Anyone have input? Thank you.

My youngest is almost exactly Viet Babe's age, and he is now in K. I will almost certainly have him repeat it (either K or first grade). The only reason he is in K is that he was "not ready" for the Pre-K program at the private school, so they asked him to leave after two weeks. (Sigh - long story). Anyway, he's doing fine in the public K (his class has only 12 kids), and he's made lots of friends and is SO happy -- and for that I'm grateful. I adore his teacher, and more importantly, she adores him. The whole nightmare with the private school turned out to be a total blessing -- but I digress.

However, were it not for the snafu with the private school, he wouldn't even be in K this year. I figure it's better to have him repeat a year when he doesn't care/won't notice, than when he's in 5th grade (or whatever) and there will be lots more self-esteem issues involved.

What's the downside? I don't see one.

Also, my oldest is a summer birthday (so technically made the cutoff), but for NYC private schools, the "unofficial" cutoff for boys is June 1 (which he didn't make). He started K at 6 and I have never regretted it. Not for one second.

My other thought (for the K'er) is to have him go to K and first grade in the publie school, then have him do !st grade again in the private school.

The private school has already said he can go back to it next year for K, but I'm going to let them sweat it out for a year. Assholes.

[Icky Thump]

Originally posted by viet_mom
Wow. I did not think these kinds of tests were administered so early. This is Vietbabe's first year in school (her "preschool" was just a daycare and she wasn't there full time anyway and so would have missed any "academic" portions). I have to say that overall, my kid seem sooooooooooooooo young. She is in clothes for an 18 month old, has all her baby teeth, weighs about 25 pounds and is shorter than all the pre-schoolers. She still carries her blankey around, uses a pacifier at night (yes, I know - bad mommy) and takes 2 hour naps on the weekends (she would during the week, but it's not allowed at school). Her schoolmates come over and I see them playing "baby" (with my kid in the cradle). Is it possible she just isn't "mature" enough for academics? She's a mid Sept. b'day (she just turned 5 this past Sept - the same month she started school) but it's possible she is actually an October b'day b/c in her adoption paperwork I can't account for where she spent the month before she was received at the orphanage at the end of October.

I try my best not to keep her a baby but to be honest, I feel like I don't have that "intuitive" thing that other parents seem to have as far as raising their kids and I worry that I'm just SCREWING UP ROYALLY AS A PARENT. I do notice that she IS maturing from year to year (able to do more things, understand more, control herself and all).

Development and maturity are genetic. There's nothing you can do to change it.

My son is a little small for his age and an August baby and also a late maturer. We didn't "red shirt" him a year and now regret it. If you are going to do it, do it now. It's tough to do between 7th and 8th.

Also there's no shame in holding kids back. The private and prep schools favor it. Typically kids in 1st grade are 7 and 8.

[Icky Thump]

My other thought (for the K'er) is to have him go to K and first grade in the publie school, then have him do !st grade again in the private school.

I wouldn't do that. He'd probably be repeating stuff and will get bored. I have a friend whose son is in a very prestigious private school for boys and who is about 8, in first grade and pulling his hair out as his abilities are far beyond the rudimentary stuff they're doing.

[dtb]

Originally posted by Icky Thump
I wouldn't do that. He'd probably be repeating stuff and will get bored. I have a friend whose son is in a very prestigious private school for boys and who is about 8, in first grade and pulling his hair out as his abilities are far beyond the rudimentary stuff they're doing.

Did you miss the part where I said I'm going to have him repeat a year at some point -- either kindergarten or first grade? I figure it will be less noticeable to him if he's going to be with a new group of kids at a different school than with a new group of kids at the same school. Truth is, he'll know the kids at the "new" school because they'll be the kids from his pre-K class (from whence he was booted).

[Icky Thump]

Originally posted by dtb
Did you miss the part where I said I'm going to have him repeat a year at some point -- either kindergarten or first grade? I figure it will be less noticeable to him if he's going to be with a new group of kids at a different school than with a new group of kids at the same school. Truth is, he'll know the kids at the "new" school because they'll be the kids from his pre-K class (from whence he was booted).

No, even though you said "almost certainly," I would lean toward 2 kindergartens. My only thing is that first grade in the public schools (at least in the good school districts) is like the first year of law school in its breadth and intensity.

[dtb]

Originally posted by Icky Thump
No, even though you said "almost certainly," I would lean toward 2 kindergartens. My only thing is that first grade in the public schools (at least in the good school districts) is like the first year of law school in its breadth and intensity.

Whee!! So why not give him THAT gift twice??

[viet_mom]

Everyone, thanks so much for your advice. We didn't really do pre-school -- she was in daycare part time and she missed the academic portion of it b/c I got her there late b/c my mornings were usually free work-wise to be with her. (Selfish?) I didn't think I needed to prep her for Kindergarten. Everyone is talking about how difficult 1st grade is. I don't remember it being that way when I was little and my Mom doesn't either. I felt pretty shaky today (thinking I did wrong by her somehow) but I just had a great night with her and she was fun and laughing and I've decided I'd be perfectly fine with a dumb but happy kid who loves me. I still can't believe I had to hear the "stay back" words already. She's only been in school for 3 months! Thanks again (And parentparanyc - yes, Vietbabe is adopted. From Viet Nam. I do know many adult Korean-born adoptees, though!)

[patentparanyc]

Originally posted by Icky Thump
No, even though you said "almost certainly," I would lean toward 2 kindergartens. My only thing is that first grade in the public schools (at least in the good school districts) is like the first year of law school in its breadth and intensity.

Yes. my son is in one of the better school districts in our county and it is intense. And it was in 1st grade.

My friend is a teacher at an exclusive boy's school and he refers to educational stages and sequences...if vietbabe is just not there yet, better to make sure her sequence flows seamlessly and adjusts prior to sending her on to 1st.....

[wow, posting same time, sorry! oops!]

Yes, I am a korean adult adoptee my parents are white. I was adopted in the 70's.....lots of issues surrounding integration/assimilation self esteem but def working on it and all around good exp. many opptys here for college and career would not have otherwise had.

it's all about the happy well adjusted kid. you don't want to send her on her way before her time and have her stress....

have a good weekend, do not stress!

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by dtb
Did you miss the part where I said I'm going to have him repeat a year at some point -- either kindergarten or first grade? I figure it will be less noticeable to him if he's going to be with a new group of kids at a different school than with a new group of kids at the same school. Truth is, he'll know the kids at the "new" school because they'll be the kids from his pre-K class (from whence he was booted).

I would be willing to repeat K for a year right now. I bet I don't get bored either.