Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Sad if true, but not sure what turning the light on will change:

A friend who advises a House Republican just told me they truly didn’t believe the Russia allegations against Trump. So they’ve just been dismissing it.

Today they read the Fusion GPS transcript & it was like a light turned on. Realizing Trump is an actual traitor. Sad to watch.

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Was he a political appointee, or was he career staff who was the acting AUSA pending a Trump appointment? Does he have any relationship with Obama?

Career staff who was jumped up to interim, has now been demoted back after the third trial debacle, and a new interim appointed.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

I completely agree, for once.

Okay, well, maybe not the lazy part, but I totally agree what we need is a society in which women are fully empowered to be sexual.

What we have is a society in which men are supposed to want sex and women are not, suffering significant stigma if they do (maybe less than the recent past now?). It makes for an ugly cocktail.

Re laziness, don't sell yourself short. You're a tremendous slouch.

On the bigger point, one might ask, "What on earth would not be improved by sexually liberating women?"

The guys who want to control and limit women's sexuality still don't seem to understand -- they're also limiting their own sexual lives. It's some really bizarre shit. Of course, I largely blame religion.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

On the bigger point, one might ask, "What on earth would not be improved by sexually liberating women?"

Men's sense of power and control.

Yeah, religion is a big factor too.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Men's sense of power and control.

Yeah, religion is a big factor too.

Why do men want to control women? If we're to judge from history, including just by way of example, the sex slavery trade that still exists today and #metoo, it seems men want to compel women to have sex with them. (Yes, there are other reasons, but sex seems the majority one.) Has it never occurred to these control freaks that this exact effort, with all of its Victorian/Puritan/Fundamentalist underpinnings, is what causes women not to have sex with them?

I know this sounds simple, but it's one of those bits of logic that really is idiot simple: If you want women to fuck you as frequently and enthusiastically as you want to fuck them, maybe it's a good idea to grant them the license to behave as libidinously as you do. And maybe it's a really bad fucking idea to tell them what they can and can't do in terms of their reproductive systems, and to scorn them for enjoying sex liberally with multiple partners.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I know this sounds simple, but it's one of those bits of logic that really is idiot simple: If you want women to fuck you as frequently and enthusiastically as you want to fuck them, maybe it's a good idea to grant them the license to behave as libidinously as you do. And maybe it's a really bad fucking idea to tell them what they can and can't do in terms of their reproductive systems, and to scorn them for enjoying sex liberally with multiple partners.

Just out of curiosity, who is your intended audience for this post?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Why do men want to control women? If we're to judge from history, including just by way of example, the sex slavery trade that still exists today and #metoo, it seems men want to compel women to have sex with them. (Yes, there are other reasons, but sex seems the majority one.) Has it never occurred to these control freaks that this exact effort, with all of its Victorian/Puritan/Fundamentalist underpinnings, is what causes women not to have sex with them?

The man who raped a #metoo woman in my family "had sex." Harvey Weinstein and Louis CK got what they wanted, until they didn't. I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but I think you are looking in the wrong direction.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Just out of curiosity, who is your intended audience for this post?

Windmills.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

The man who raped a #metoo woman in my family "had sex." Harvey Weinstein and Louis CK got what they wanted, until they didn't. I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but I think you are looking in the wrong direction.

There’s a fundamental flaw in the basic concept of a patriarchy. By inflicting all these odious social rules on women regarding sex, chauvinists, who clearly seek sex, have been shooting themselves in the feet for a few thousand years.

And your definition of sex is a little bit, um, perverted. Rape is not sex. Sex is consensual.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

There’s a fundamental flaw in the basic concept of a patriarchy. By inflicting all these odious social rules on women regarding sex, chauvinists, who clearly seek sex, have been shooting themselves in the feet for a few thousand years.

And your definition of sex is a little bit, um, perverted. Rape is not sex. Sex is consensual.

Fuck you. I used quotes for a reason. Those men all got what they were after. Your dim point that maybe if they just sat back they'd "get more and better" is so far off as to approach bizarro Adder land. The issue has nothing to do with how most people approach each other. You bringing up how normal people try to have sex, in a conversation about how predators try, is the sick fuck move.

The current discussion is not about guys who drunkenly say something stupid that offends, so that your panacea of "just letting the ladies decide" is off. The current discussion is about guys who have power and don't give a fuck about the rules.

My family member's boss, Harvey and Louie all knew they were breaking laws or at least being really fucking nasty. Fixing the "rules" doesn't cure men who don't give a fuck about the rules.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Fuck you. I used quotes for a reason. Those men all got what they were after. Your dim point that maybe if they just sat back they'd "get more and better" is so far off as to approach bizarro Adder land. The issue has nothing to do with how most people approach each other. You bringing up how normal people try to have sex, in a conversation about how predators try, is the sick fuck move.

The current discussion is not about guys who drunkenly say something stupid that offends, so that your panacea of "just letting the ladies decide is better." The current discussion is about guys who have power and don't give a fuck about the rules.

My family member's boss, Harvey and Louie all knew they were breaking laws or at least being really fucking nasty. Fixing the "rules" doesn't cure men who don't give a fuck about the rules.

You speak like someone who thinks he’s the only person here with a close family member who was sexually assaulted.

I don’t wish to discuss personal issues, but you don’t own that pedestal. So you can put that righteousness away, or use it on someone else, who isn’t similarly situated. (Hell, if you would like to expand it further than that, I don’t think a single female friend of mine falls outside the #metoo camp.)

Now onto the point, which you’ve totally mangled…

I absolutely did not mean, in any conceivable manner, that people like Weinstein should just sit back, and they would “do better.“. I was stating, in a somewhat comical way, that shaming women for their sexuality throughout history has done nothing to help men. To the extent this “control mechanism” has been used by men who want to control women to acquire sex on their terms, it is about the most counterproductive thing chauvinists have done.

You might want to read more slowly sometimes.

ETA: And as far as what we are discussing, and who brought it up, this originated with me posting a letter from Catherine Deneuve, which was very much about the subject I was addressing, and much less so about the one you are. You can take the issue up with her if you like. I recommend writing in proper French.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Fuck you.

Repeat after me, Sebby: Hank is not a windmill.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You speak like someone who thinks he’s the only person here with a close family member who was sexually assaulted.

I don’t wish to discuss personal issues, but you don’t own that pedestal. So you can put that righteousness away, or use it on someone else, who isn’t similarly situated. (Hell, if you would like to expand it further than that, I don’t think a single female friend of mine falls outside the #metoo camp.)

I wasn't defending my family member's pain, I was responding to you somehow thinking I was equating rape with consensual sex. I'm not on any pedestal.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Repeat after me, Sebby: Hank is not a windmill.

I’m not interested in the predator conversation. That’s a done subject. Those people are clear cut criminals or sleazebags.

I’m interested in the bleed over of this into regular relations, which is where I think Deneuve was heading. That’s a far more interesting conversation.