We are all Slave now.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Trump doesn't pretend to be color-blind. The real racism is the race consciousness that gets in the way of implicit white supremacy.

? Really. The "least racist person you know" never pretends to be color-blind?

In the instance I cited, he was employing a defensive device based on the use of color-blindness as a way of avoiding engaging in actual conversation about the real racism he exhibited and about which he was being questioned. This is why I seized on that example.

TM

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

It is the ultimate extension of "both side-ism",

Before Charlottesville I had never heard of "both sideism." I feel Trump popularized it,at least, maybe invented it, at least as applied to Nazis.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

First, I think you are the only person who would describe your take on things as "entirely logical."

You can take a bunch of screwed-up inputs and process them in a way that is entirely logical, and you will end up with a bunch of screwed-up outputs.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

? Really. The "least racist person you know" never pretends to be color-blind?

In the instance I cited, he was employing a defensive device based on the use of color-blindness as a way of avoiding engaging in actual conversation about the real racism he exhibited and about which he was being questioned. This is why I seized on that example.

TM

I think we are talking past each other. Trump doesn't even try to pretend to be color-blind. People who pretend to be color-blind understand that there is a principle of color blindness that other people believe in, and are trying to internalize that principle to at least some extent. Trump does not give a sh*t about principles, color-blindness or otherwise.

I agree that he was using a defensive device. I think he was just repeating something he'd heard to duck a question.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

In general, Trump doesn't have beliefs or principles, he has wants, needs and urges, and what he says reflects the latter, not the former. But this is one subject where he comes pretty close to having actual beliefs. Still, I would say that he is more using things he has heard other people say to avoid a question in the moment, rather than trying to express an idea.

It amazes me that people still look for some deeper principle behind what he says.

You can say this about some things, like his position on trade or health care, but I really do think he has been profoundly and devotedly racist consistently throughout his business and political careers.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Before Charlottesville I had never heard of "both sideism." I feel Trump popularized it,at least, maybe invented it, at least as applied to Nazis.

Man, you should actually read what Sebby has to say more carefully sometimes.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I think we are talking past each other. Trump doesn't even try to pretend to be color-blind. People who pretend to be color-blind understand that there is a principle of color blindness that other people believe in, and are trying to internalize that principle to at least some extent. Trump does not give a sh*t about principles, color-blindness or otherwise.

I agree that he was using a defensive device. I think he was just repeating something he'd heard to duck a question.

No argument here. I didn't bring it up to probe the depths of Trumps racism or his understanding of anything at all. I brought it up as example of how people use it to get out from under having any meaningful conversation about something they've said or believe.

To be clear, I think that everyone who professes to be color-blind is completely full of shit. It is absolutely impossible to be color-blind in this country. Hell, even the people who argue that they are striving for it do it to get out of confronting the actual reality of race in this country. They aren't even fooling themselves.

TM

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

It amazes me that people still look for some deeper principle behind what he says.

I feel this way about Sebastian.

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

“People are wonderful. I love individuals. I hate groups of people. I hate a group of people with a 'common purpose'. 'Cause pretty soon they have little hats. And armbands. And fight songs. And a list of people they're going to visit at 3am. So, I dislike and despise groups of people but I love individuals. Every person you look at; you can see the universe in their eyes, if you're really looking.” - Carlin

Why is it I hate people, but like get-togethers? - LessinSF

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Would one be misdandrist when saying the following to colleagues after dealing with annoying men:

1. "Fucking midget with a Napoleon Complex..."
2. "Typical douche."
3. "Casper Milquetoast... No fucking balls."
4. "Fragile male ego..."
5. "Two assholes seeing who has the bigger dick..."

We all use those quite often, I'm sure, as infuriating men fuck up every decent work week at least to some small extent.

I'm "woke" on the issue of not using "bitch" to describe nasty women as it's unfair. But I am never giving up the right to judge men based on their sex. If there's a #hetoo, I'm moving to South America.

But will you say "Long time, no see?"

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

You can say this about some things, like his position on trade or health care, but I really do think he has been profoundly and devotedly racist consistently throughout his business and political careers.

Sure, but it's more like an urge or need than any sort of principled belief. He doesn't make any sort of effort to articulate any kind of ethos around it, not even a white supremacist one. (Say what you will about National Socialism, at least it was an ethos.)

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

No argument here. I didn't bring it up to probe the depths of Trumps racism or his understanding of anything at all. I brought it up as example of how people use it to get out from under having any meaningful conversation about something they've said or believe.

To be clear, I think that everyone who professes to be color-blind is completely full of shit. It is absolutely impossible to be color-blind in this country. Hell, even the people who argue that they are striving for it do it to get out of confronting the actual reality of race in this country. They aren't even fooling themselves.

TM

Certainty, even stridently offered, ain’t proof. Plenty of people are striving for it for legitimate reasons.

And you heard this from the only person here more cynical than you.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

You can take a bunch of screwed-up inputs and process them in a way that is entirely logical, and you will end up with a bunch of screwed-up outputs.

This place is 50% emotion, 50% logic. Everybody’d admit it privately after a couple drinks. But this forum doesn’t allow that. Part of it is the loss of context in this medium. It’s a problem with loose digital communication generally. Confusion accruing from it being part conversation, part formal writing all in the same expression.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by LessinSF

Why is it I hate people, but like get-togethers? - LessinSF

I share a love of hors d’oeuvres.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

You can say this about some things, like his position on trade or health care, but I really do think he has been profoundly and devotedly racist consistently throughout his business and political careers.

I think he’s deeply hierarchical, and the hierarchy he believes should govern is the privileged one where rich people can do as they like and only street crime is prosecuted.

He’s a standard issue old rich white dude.