Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

I know this is going to be hard for you, but: no it isn't. It's usually just a failure to appreciate the larger picture.

You're both wrong. Selfishness is entirely rational if one's ends are selfish, which many people's are not. But many people are, and act selfishly because that's what they want to do, not because they're not thinking it through.

Adder, it's like you're trying to exemplify what's wrong with the center left per that article, so thanks for that. If you want to make a moral argument, you've got to make a moral argument, not just accuse someone of not appreciating a self-evident truth. Bonus points for condescension!

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Not sure who your "we" is, but it isn't "society." The people who voted for Trump were informed by a strong view of morality that Clinton voters did not share. Illegal immigration is wrong, and illegal immigrants are criminals who ought to face consequence. Law & order means that police should be respected and obeyed, and that people who threaten the social order should be punished. The undeserving shouldn't get help from the government. And so on. Trump was popular in part because he spoke forcefully and unapologetically to these morals.

As I noted in my first reply, the enlightened have moved past morality. The unenlightened continue to use it to persecute others.

Moral judgment is self-granted currency. I think it's actually a great credit to the Center Left that it has eschewed that cudgel in favor of emphasizing the superiority of rational pragmatic thinking.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

As I noted in my first reply, the enlightened have moved past morality.

Again, this is fundamentally untrue. You have personally argued on moral terms against mass incarceration, the war on drugs and overt racial discrimination. Are you unenlightened?

Those these are bad on technocratic terms too - they come with very high costs and no benefits - but they are also fundamentally unjust.

Heck, your entire "no duty" schtick is a moral argument too.

And I actually agree with Ty's article that the center left fails politically when it can't communicate the morality of its policies. Humans get right and wrong. Many of them don't get cost benefit balancing.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

As I noted in my first reply, the enlightened have moved past morality. The unenlightened continue to use it to persecute others.

Moral judgment is self-granted currency. I think it's actually a great credit to the Center Left that it has eschewed that cudgel in favor of emphasizing the superiority of rational pragmatic thinking.

Your amorality is itself a form of morality, just not a very compelling one.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Adder

Many of them don't get cost benefit balancing.

Also a morality, also not very compelling.

eta: And just about everyone understands cost-benefit balancing. That's not the problem.

[Hank Chinaski]

Supremes Slants TM registration case, yes no? I once was trying to market by being in the Italian American bar. There was a quarterly journal that basically focused on anti Italian legal stuff. About every issue they were seeking to cancel registrations to Ma Fia's or whatever. Wonder what they'll focus on now?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Supremes Slants TM registration case, yes no? I once was trying to market by being in the Italian American bar. There was a quarterly journal that basically focused on anti Italian legal stuff. About every issue they were seeking to cancel registrations to Ma Fia's or whatever. Wonder what they'll focus on now?

I haven't read the case, but who would ever want to infringe on this mark, anyways?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I haven't read the case, but who would ever want to infringe on this mark, anyways?

Bands want the registrations to help stop counterfeit merch.


Edit: although it doesn't seem punk? Flower?

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Bands want the registrations to help stop counterfeit merch.


Edit: although it doesn't seem punk? Flower?

I kind of doubt that Darby Crash was overly concerned about counterfeit merch.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I have seen some conservatives suggesting that HCR did not improve healthcare outcomes. I find that completely bizarre, particularly in light of the people I know who got coverage through HCR and are afraid they'll lose it. Hard to believe they are scared for no good reason. WTF?

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I have seen some conservatives suggesting that HCR did not improve healthcare outcomes. I find that completely bizarre, particularly in light of the people I know who got coverage through HCR and are afraid they'll lose it. Hard to believe they are scared for no good reason. WTF?

https://aspe.hhs.gov/affordable-care-act-research

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I have seen some conservatives suggesting that HCR did not improve healthcare outcomes. I find that completely bizarre, particularly in light of the people I know who got coverage through HCR and are afraid they'll lose it. Hard to believe they are scared for no good reason. WTF?

You do get that all people do not have the exact circumstances? I know I pointed that out hundreds of times here.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

You do get that all people do not have the exact circumstances? I know I pointed that out hundreds of times here.

I do get that, but not why you think it has something to do with what I said.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

https://aspe.hhs.gov/affordable-care-act-research

I see a lot about coverage there, but at first glance wasn't seeing much about outcomes. Did I miss it?

[Tyrone Slothrop]