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Old 08-01-2017, 03:48 PM   #1396
sebastian_dangerfield
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
Whatever the pros or cons of your position, it is pretty clear the Republicans put more of their morons in elected positions, and elect more of them to higher positions.
This is mathematically accurate from my assessment of the House and Senate.

It appears (back of envelope again) stupidity and achievement in non-coastal GOP politics run almost 1:1.
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:52 PM   #1397
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Your analysis is limited by your stunted worldview.

TM
If you're voting based on What You Get, rich or poor, D or R, you're employing the same logic. You can argue that when you need something, that sort of voting is excusable. I'd agree. If you're fucked and you need the govt, you're excused in a manner the greedheaded affluent tax voter is not.

But both of these animals are acting in purely rational manners, and thinking almost exclusively about themselves.
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:53 PM   #1398
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy View Post
Whatever the pros or cons of your position, it is pretty clear the Republicans put more of their morons in elected positions, and elect more of them to higher positions.
Morons? Republican politicians care about cutting taxes for the wealthy and getting elected. They do those things well. They just don't need to drill down on your priorities.
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:54 PM   #1399
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
I mean, if one must go back of the envelope, as is unfortunately required in these things.
Sorry, will get off your corner now.
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:57 PM   #1400
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
But both of these animals are acting in purely rational manners, and thinking almost exclusively about themselves.
If you just assume that people are acting rationally in a self-interested way, then whatever they do must be the product of purely rational self-interest. That will get you through Econ 101, but it doesn't add much to any conversation.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:07 PM   #1401
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
If you just assume that people are acting rationally in a self-interested way, then whatever they do must be the product of purely rational self-interest. That will get you through Econ 101, but it doesn't add much to any conversation.
I didn't assume that. I assumed an equal number of GOP and Democratic voters act purely in self-interest.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:07 PM   #1402
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
If you're voting based on What You Get, rich or poor, D or R, you're employing the same logic. You can argue that when you need something, that sort of voting is excusable. I'd agree. If you're fucked and you need the govt, you're excused in a manner the greedheaded affluent tax voter is not.

But both of these animals are acting in purely rational manners, and thinking almost exclusively about themselves.
I don't really want to get into the different reasons why people vote (not necessarily because of what they "get") or which group of people actively votes for people who deny science at every turn or whatever. And I don't want to get into some ridiculous argument about whether voting for people who want to hoard all wealth vs. voting for people who want to actually people is smarter or dumber. I'm sorry I responded at all.

I will say this: The dumbest people with the dumbest arguments with the dumbest sources for support for their positions are almost always right wing lunatics.

You can have the last word.

TM
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:19 PM   #1403
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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But the Rs who vote against their own benefits because they believe the entitlement state is too large, or put fiscal concerns above their own interest, are not stupid.
Given that most of them probably do not know what benefits they are getting, much less have even a remote understanding as to the size and scope of the "entitlement state" (see, e.g., Dangerfield, Sebastian), yeah they are.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:19 PM   #1404
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall View Post
I will say this: The dumbest people with the dumbest arguments with the dumbest sources for support for their positions are almost always right wing lunatics.

You can have the last word.

TM
Last word: I agree with you there.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:29 PM   #1405
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
I did see that post, which was by Alex, not Tyler.
Darnit. It's completely unfair to have two people writing the same blog!

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I have a couple of issues with it, which may or may not have been anticipated by the underlying article.
I have many issues with the post and cited it only for the narrow factual assertion that people do not value their medicaid anywhere near where what it costs. Which I do not think is an observation that has much meaning for the related policy decisions (Alex does, obvs), among other things for the reasons you mention.

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I just think that while use of those benefits is greatest by incidence, it is the part of healthcare coverage that most people value less because paying out of pocket for these things is just not that scary.
Not scary, no, but one thing I heard a lot of excitement about when Obamacare was coming into force was women not having to pay out of pocket for contraception. That's some pretty weak evidence, I admit, but really, when people talk about the quality of their insurance they talk about how easy it is to use for the health care they consume, not how much peace of mind it gives them about something terrible that could happen.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:30 PM   #1406
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
I didn't assume that. I assumed an equal number of GOP and Democratic voters act purely in self-interest.
Equally tautologically, but in a more complicated way.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:35 PM   #1407
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I have many issues with the post and cited it only for the narrow factual assertion that people do not value their medicaid anywhere near where what it costs.
Who would values a $35K BMW more? Person A, who owns a Tesla and a Maserati and is looking for something for his teenager to drive to school, or Person B, who has no car and takes a public bus across town to a low-paying job. If you go by willingness to pay, obviously Person A, but we all understand that Person B would value it more.

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Not scary, no, but one thing I heard a lot of excitement about when Obamacare was coming into force was women not having to pay out of pocket for contraception. That's some pretty weak evidence, I admit, but really, when people talk about the quality of their insurance they talk about how easy it is to use for the health care they consume, not how much peace of mind it gives them about something terrible that could happen.
There, I think people are talking about the quality of their health care rather than the quality of their insurance, but because of the way the latter is structure, you often lose choice in where you can buy the latter, so the consumption decisions for separate products are bundled.
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:59 PM   #1408
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
This is mathematically accurate from my assessment of the House and Senate.

It appears (back of envelope again) stupidity and achievement in non-coastal GOP politics run almost 1:1.
If you consider the Great Lakes as a third coast, maybe. although we have had some very dumb D Govs and Senators.
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Old 08-01-2017, 05:39 PM   #1409
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
Morons? Republican politicians care about cutting taxes for the wealthy and getting elected. They do those things well. They just don't need to drill down on your priorities.
Ty, may I introduce you to Congressman Blake Farenthold, who recently challenged two Senators to a duel:

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Old 08-01-2017, 07:12 PM   #1410
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Ty, may I introduce you to Congressman Blake Farenthold, who recently challenged two Senators to a duel:

Gerrymandering is a bitch.
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