We are all Slave now.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

Poor, poor Flower. People across the country representing the majority of the Electoral College just woke up with a smile and the thought: "How shall we own the libs today?"



BTW, nice effort, but the internal monologue is really more like this:

So are you the kind of conservative that wants Roe reversed?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

So what do you think of the President having two rallies this week where he stood in front of crowds screaming "Lock Her Up"?

I think he's a marketer/PR pro in a very tight spot, slowly, assiduously galvanizing public opinion in his favor.

The more crazies he gets to chant those things with him, the more he signals to the GOP: Don't even think about throwing me under the bus if this Mueller thing comes back with some damning conclusions. I have a movement behind me, and I'll rip your party apart.

He knows he has a very limited time left in which to pre-emptively discredit Mueller. He needs to build up as much sentiment in his favor as he can to counter what's coming. And it's best to do so among his hardcore lunatic supporters, as they're the only people who will ignore Mueller entirely no matter what he uncovers. That's why he's focusing on the "lock her up" chanting crowd. (Added Bonus: That crowd is also the loudest, most involved, and most threatening. He gets a lot of social media bang for his buck from them, and he gets Fox and CNN covering the rally, telecasting images of rabid followers working themselves into a lather as as he speaks. Very unsettling spectacles.)

It's Machiavellian, but not Nazi. It's also a demonstration of Trump's "occasional intelligence." The guy blundered himself into this mess by firing Comey over Bannon's strong objection. But the PR work he's done to discredit Mueller has been well executed and shows intelligence and cunning. How fucked would things be if the dumb 75% of Trump's brain stopped working and 25% intelligent portion of it took over entirely?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

I think he's a marketer/PR pro in a very tight spot, slowly, assiduously galvanizing public opinion in his favor.

The more crazies he gets to chant those things with him, the more he signals to the GOP: Don't even think about throwing me under the bus if this Mueller thing comes back with some damning conclusions. I have a movement behind me, and I'll rip your party apart.

He knows he has a very limited time left in which to pre-emptively discredit Mueller. He needs to build up as much sentiment in his favor as he can to counter what's coming. And it's best to do so among his hardcore lunatic supporters, as they're the only people who will ignore Mueller entirely no matter what he uncovers. That's why he's focusing on the "lock her up" chanting crowd.

It's Machiavellian, but not Nazi. It's also a demonstration of Trump's "occasional intelligence." The guy blundered himself into this mess by firing Comey over Bannon's strong objection. But the PR work he's done to discredit Mueller has been well executed and shows intelligence and cunning. How fucked would things be if the dumb 75% of Trump's brain stopped working and 25% intelligent portion of it took over entirely?

I don't care about how you analyze it or excuse it.

Does it appall you? Does it excite you? Do you think it's a good thing? Do you want to join them? Avoid them?

You seem much more disturbed by the people who compare this behavior to Nazism than you do by the behavior itself. Indeed, you seem to have a bit of an interest in and admiration for the behavior.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

It's a motto of "I don't care."

Do u?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

You're wrong about Trump voters not changing their minds. If the Democrats focused on how he lied to the blue collar voters and has not delivered for them, they'd peel away the purely economic voters in his base.

This is zero people. He's being mean to brown people. That's what they wanted.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

This is what everything you wrote (and a lot of it is just garbage) boils down to, and it's the crux of the problem with your false equivalency. (I'm not going to touch the race stuff because it's annoying and frustrating to talk about that stuff with you. You're gonna see what you want to see and that's that.)

You can "diverge" all you want. The problem with you is that you are equating institutional power (legislative, executive, and judicial, not to mention educational, economic, prosecutorial, law enforcement, etc.) which is actually shaping the laws and every single de jure application of that power [the right wing] with opinion, collective pressure, shaming, protest [the left wing]. You weep about how a couple of powerful people are being overly harmed after centuries of the powerful taking what they want from the less powerful. The minute that dynamic shifts an ounce and you're talking about how we no longer have a First Amendment or Due Process. You should be embarrassed to make those arguments.

The two sides I laid out are not fucking equivalent no matter how much you say progressives are trying to "change the law." It's ridiculous and stupid.

TM

I am not making any comparison at all. Regarding #metoo, I am simply stating that it is wrong and absurd to destroy people without a full and fair vetting of the accusations against them. I am also saying that it is no excuse to do so because for years, institutions have protected "male privilege."

Institutional discrimination is a unique problem of its own. I agree it needs to be rooted out. What I don't understand is why you think I'm equating this with shaming, protest, etc. I'm not. Not at all.

The Left has every right to flip out as it likes. It can say any overheated thing it desires. So can the right. What I'm saying is this stuff probably isn't going to be as effective as the Left thinks it will be, and it might be counterproductive. But I don't not think the Left's behavior is wrong, or bad, or in any way near as pernicious as institutional discrimination.

The Left's protests and rhetoric are both justified and understandable. However, their mob attacks on people like Hardwick and Ansari are despicable.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

In the case of Aziz Ansari, it was outrageous.

What horrible things happened to Aziz Ansari?

In the case of Chris Hardwick, it's pretty obviously a hanging first then trial scenario.

Chris Hardwick is going to be fine, just like Aziz.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

We’d have a real civil war. It’d be the end of the GOP forever.

Not even Trump does something that insane.

You are completely delusional.

I think it’s best to do a grand bargain. Agree to drop Mueller probe in exchange for a moderate justice.

Leaving aside the absurdity, who do you think has the power to agree to this? And why would Mueller and Rosenstein want to?

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick

Poor, poor Flower. People across the country representing the majority of the Electoral College just woke up with a smile and the thought: "How shall we own the libs today?"



BTW, nice effort, but the internal monologue is really more like this:

This is actually part of it. One of the reasons certain people voted for Trump and still support him is because they love that he drives liberals crazy. He trolls them daily and they love it. Welcome to 2018.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I hate ICE. I don't like having my daughters' buses searched when they go to visit each other, I don't like having roadblocks on the roads around here, and I especially don't like the degree of racial profiling that is clearly occurring and is regularly focused on my clients and friends. The hostility has a distinct negative impact on my business. I would expect those who describe themselves as traditional conservatives or libertarians would object to such things as well, though they don't seem to.

But it's still a function we have to have, it would just be nice if it weren't a breeding ground for assholes.

It's a function we don't have to have. We have CBP for handling the border. That's what all we need.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Godwin Revisited: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pol...-charge-218932

We're putting children in cages and people in camps.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

I don't care about how you analyze it or excuse it.

Does it appall you? Does it excite you? Do you think it's a good thing? Do you want to join them? Avoid them?

You seem much more disturbed by the people who compare this behavior to Nazism than you do by the behavior itself. Indeed, you seem to have a bit of an interest in and admiration for the behavior.

This is a very high stakes, complicated chess game. But it's also being played by a fool. The progression is fascinating.

I can't say I admire Trump, as he's got ludicrous and cruel policies, and I think he's going to worsen and accelerate a recession. I also find him personally offensive and dumb.

But, watching him amass a counter to the most powerful investigative agency in the country and take over the GOP is engrossing. It's hard to not guess at strategy and take the inside baseball approach to the events as they unfold.

Given what Mark Warner said at Martha's Vineyard last week, I think we're going to see an insane showdown.

My hope is we have something truly shocking that causes a further discrediting of the system, followed by a reappraisal of how we do politics at all levels in this country. It may turn out that Trump's own criminality is the thing that actually "drains the swamp."

Or, it might turn out to be a giant nothing. So my feelings right now are: 1. Boredom at the Trump v. Left back and forth; 2. Suspense at what Mueller has up his sleeve, and how Machiavellian Trump will go.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

It's Machiavellian, but not Nazi.

You know who else knew how to throw a good rally?

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Or, it might turn out to be a giant nothing. So my feelings right now are: 1. Boredom at the Trump v. Left back and forth; 2. Suspense at what Mueller has up his sleeve, and how Machiavellian Trump will go.

Mueller has up his sleeve money laundering, Russian and other foreign government payments to Cohen and evidence that Trump knew about and participated in both things. You're already on Team Nothingburger.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

Leaving aside the absurdity, who do you think has the power to agree to this? And why would Mueller and Rosenstein want to?

Where there's a will and agreement, the procedure can always be navigated.

Mueller and Rosenstein will not have a choice.