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Old 06-15-2018, 12:52 PM   #1231
Tyrone Slothrop
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Originally Posted by Adder View Post
I'm going to have a strong preference for feminist women and giving others the chance to be in charge of things.

We're so far from that being literally true or possible that you need not pause over hyperbole.
What you call hyperbole (presumably including when you said you agreed with everything she said) is virtue-signaling, and masks the real problem that it's hard to figure out what, concretely, is to be done. In its way, it's like the way that conservatives all vie with each other to show that they are purer in their aims to trigger libs ("I'm going to drown the government in the bathtub" "I'm going to build a wall" "I'm separate brown children from their parents as a deterrent"). The problem comes when such people find themselves in actual positions of authority and have convinced themselves that their hyperbole is an action plan.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:55 PM   #1232
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Why does that bother you?

ETA: Everything in there strikes me as fair and we absolutely should be doing more to empower women.
It doesn't bother me. It's just retarded.

It's an essay written by someone with the mind of a thirteen year old. Only it's in WaPo.

I expect this sort of idiotic shit from folks on the Right. I don't expect it from a distinguished media outlet, or from the Left. I know that's naive, and perhaps a double standard.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:56 PM   #1233
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
What you call hyperbole (presumably including when you said you agreed with everything she said) is virtue-signaling, and masks the real problem that it's hard to figure out what, concretely, is to be done. In its way, it's like the way that conservatives all vie with each other to show that they are purer in their aims to trigger libs ("I'm going to drown the government in the bathtub" "I'm going to build a wall" "I'm separate brown children from their parents as a deterrent"). The problem comes when such people find themselves in actual positions of authority and have convinced themselves that their hyperbole is an action plan.
2. "My retarded shit vs. yours" isn't doing the country any favors.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:05 PM   #1234
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
I was reading a FB thread about "white privilege." This one insipid white guy said, "because of it, I decided not to take a management position and instead became an EMT(or some such). It struck me, even accepting the guaranteed management jobs waiting for all whites, that minorities would be better off if HE HAD taken the management job, then he could cause change. Isn't that true here also?

The other thing that all such pondering (like yours) lacks, is a recognition that there is not standard for what "feminists want." My daughter has some clear ideas, and expectations. I can's always agree, or understand, but at least I can process what she thinks. But then I see FB friends who are feminists and way the fuck out there. They post stuff that states what is "right things" for men that can only make me think I can't imagine dating, i can't imagine a world where they have achieved these things. Often it seems a world a man couldn't be in.

That's why saying "sure, whatever a feminists wants" is actually leading to extending the problems, because the world as envisioned to meet the dreams of all feminists, wouldn't meet the dreams of many feminists. You adder are the problem.
I'm always the problem, Hank.

Voting for women and thinking "hey, maybe I should take a step back and see if someone else wants to take the lead" doesn't really run into too many conflicting "dreams."
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:05 PM   #1235
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
2. "My retarded shit vs. yours" isn't doing the country any favors.
to be fair, adder passing on "his chance" to be in charge isn't really that big a sacrifice.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:09 PM   #1236
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop View Post
virtue-signaling
This is a phrase that never had a terribly good use anyway but regardless has become entirely useless aside from signalling that the person using it does not care about whatever issue is being discussed.

I don't think you don't care, so maybe it's not the best word choice.

Quote:
and masks the real problem that it's hard to figure out what, concretely, is to be done.
Voting for women and taking a step back sometimes seem like pretty concrete ideas of what's to be done.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:38 PM   #1237
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Voting for women and taking a step back sometimes seem like pretty concrete ideas of what's to be done.
Is it voting for women, or voting for "feminist" women? If it is the latter, please define.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:48 PM   #1238
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Originally Posted by Adder View Post
I'm always the problem, Hank.
If you hadn't said those things, all those people wouldn't have gone and voted for Trump. I hope you're sorry.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:56 PM   #1239
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Originally Posted by Adder View Post
This is a phrase that never had a terribly good use anyway but regardless has become entirely useless aside from signalling that the person using it does not care about whatever issue is being discussed.

I don't think you don't care, so maybe it's not the best word choice.

Voting for women and taking a step back sometimes seem like pretty concrete ideas of what's to be done.
The word "virtue-signaling" has many excellent uses. It defines a certain type of self-righteous behavior in which one professes beliefs, judges others for disagreement with those beliefs, but never takes any useful action to help the aggrieved or persecuted people who are the subject of those beliefs. And as Ty noted, usually those beliefs are extreme, which is intentional. If you accuse the signaling person of talking and not actually doing anything, they have the built in excuse that their aims are so radical they cannot be achieved in the current system.

I could be accused of virtue signalling by voting third party. Except that I did intend to contribute to the third party voting numbers. And I didn't judge Hillary or Trump voters for voting as they did. (I suspect the most ardent virtue signalers voted for Jill Stein and told everyone they did so, endlessly... on Facebook.)

Voting for anyone based on anything other than platform and skill is unwise.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:56 PM   #1240
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Originally Posted by Adder View Post
This is a phrase that never had a terribly good use anyway but regardless has become entirely useless aside from signalling that the person using it does not care about whatever issue is being discussed.

I don't think you don't care, so maybe it's not the best word choice.
In other words, "virtue-signaling" is anti-virtue-signalling?

I disagree with you. The phrase suggests that people are saying things for the purpose of having appeared to have said thing and how it will reflect well on their intentions, rather than because the thing is particularly true or useful or likely to lead to some useful outcome. When you said that everything she said was fair, you didn't actually mean that you actually agree with what she said. You just approve of her cause, directionally, even if you don't agree with specific things that she says. Probably you think that it does the world some measure of good if men like yourself support her, even if they don't really always mean it. The phrase "virtue-signaling" is not entirely fair here, because it seems like you probably think that the public act of agreeing with her will somehow have some effect on the world apart from telling everyone here that you are on the side of feminism, although I confess that unless underpants gnomes are involved, I don't get it.

Quote:
Voting for women and taking a step back sometimes seem like pretty concrete ideas of what's to be done.
Sure, but now you're qualifying your agreement with her in a pretty significant way. If you take her words seriously, and I'm not sure you do, then you wouldn't vote for a male Democrat running against a Republican. "Taking a step back sometimes" sounds great. Who doesn't want a vacation? I'm thinking of taking a step back in a few weeks and going to Tahoe or Paris (or ideally the place in Utah that TM recommended, but my wallet can't do that). But that's not what she was saying either.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:03 PM   #1241
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Originally Posted by Adder View Post
I'm always the problem, Hank.

Voting for women and thinking "hey, maybe I should take a step back and see if someone else wants to take the lead" doesn't really run into too many conflicting "dreams."
I don't wish to lead anything. In this regard, I'm the most feminist-friendly voter out there. Sing it, sister! Here's to apathy and gin!

My vote for running anything, from a committee in the frat house, to every group project I've done, to the local school board, to the UN: Someone Else.

Some Else: 2018-Forever!
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:06 PM   #1242
ThurgreedMarshall
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Why does that bother you?

ETA: Everything in there strikes me as fair and we absolutely should be doing more to empower women.
The headline is clickbait, of course. If she had framed "blanket hate" as something more realistic like, "loss of the benefit of the doubt in every single instance," it would be more palatable.

People absolutely cannot stand to be lumped in with others on these types of generalizations.

"You are privileged." "What? Me? My daddy was a coal miner's daughter and I grew up on nothing but knock off Welch's grape juice.

"Cops support cops no matter what." "What? My uncle is a cop and he is the least racist cop ever. In fact, he had a black girlfriend in '98!

"It is very hard to navigate the world based on the amount of aggression exhibited by men in all walks of life." "What? I've never assaulted anyone. And I stopped calling girls,* "honey" in '98 when my uncle's black girlfriend punched me in my eye! I'm not the problem!"

"New Yorkers are rude." "What? Fuck you, buddy. I helped a little old lady get the fuck out of my way just the other day. Tell your story walkin'.

I don't understand why people can't listen to something like what was written in the article, understand that she's employing a rhetorical device, remove themselves from the class based on their own behavior, and move on with their lives without dismissing the whole thing. But apparently, that is absolutely impossible.

TM

*This is intentional.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:11 PM   #1243
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
I was reading a FB thread about "white privilege." This one insipid white guy said, "because of it, I decided not to take a management position and instead became an EMT(or some such). It struck me, even accepting the guaranteed management jobs waiting for all whites, that minorities would be better off if HE HAD taken the management job, then he could cause change. Isn't that true here also?

The other thing that all such pondering (like yours) lacks, is a recognition that there is not standard for what "feminists want." My daughter has some clear ideas, and expectations. I can's always agree, or understand, but at least I can process what she thinks. But then I see FB friends who are feminists and way the fuck out there. They post stuff that states what is "right things" for men that can only make me think I can't imagine dating, i can't imagine a world where they have achieved these things. Often it seems a world a man couldn't be in.

That's why saying "sure, whatever a feminists wants" is actually leading to extending the problems, because the world as envisioned to meet the dreams of all feminists, wouldn't meet the dreams of many feminists. You adder are the problem.
Yes. The problem in this world is all of the crazy feminists running for office and the fact that so many white men are giving up management positions for jobs with less authority such that you can't even imagine a world where feminists would be in charge because there's no place for men.

Get a grip, homie.

TM
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:13 PM   #1244
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Re: We are all Slave now.

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
I also like Twitter because it compels one to offer a great link, clever joke, or pithy commentary, unlike Facebook, where people emote ad nauseum:

I don't give a fuck about your latest struggle with addiction, Miriam. And I certainly didn't need 10,000 fucking words on it. Stop analyzing yourself up your own ass and maybe you'd meet someone nice and stop having to take all those pills.

Lovely McMansion, Wendell. Love the turrets. And the children's gazebo. Are those weimaraners?

Thank you, Candace... We do need to raise awareness about huffing in the middle school! Billboards. More billboards. Maybe a fun run, too? 5k?
All this. But don't forget the inspirational quotes. "You can't love others until you learn to love yourself."

Oh. Great. Thanks. I was going to, but I will work on myself first. So glad you posted, you colossal moron.

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Old 06-15-2018, 02:13 PM   #1245
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Re: Cuckoo Pants

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Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield View Post
I'm the most feminist-friendly voter out there.
Too soon.
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