Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

There's even a market for bigotry on the left. He's been mining it for a long time, this is just a new verse to an old song.

Not sure it's bigotry, it's more "I'm Bill Maher, so you know I'm not a bigot." It's more Tarentino w/o a script to point to?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I hate Bill Maher anyway, but does he survive this one?

He survives.

The joke was in bad taste. But it was actually intended to insult the bigots in the right wing of the GOP. This ironic usage is clear to any long time watcher of Maher.

Still, he took a chance and it really came off badly. I don't believe any white, old, affluent person has the right to use that term to refer to himself. As much as Maher has supported BLM and been a strong voice for recognizing and remedying injustice toward Black people, he does not get a pass to use the term self-referentially.

He fucked up.

He needs to stop pre-show baking.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

There's even a market for bigotry on the left. He's been mining it for a long time, this is just a new verse to an old song.

No, Maher is an anti-theist. He insults all religions equally, in the tradition of Harris, Dawkins, and Hitchens.

He's only called a bigot because he's been harsh on Islam for not policing its radicals. In that, he's too strident, but... he's only being factual. All religions are vehicles for awful behaviors, and Islam just happens to the one serving that purpose most luridly at the moment.

I don't agree with Maher that moderate Muslims have a duty to police the crazies, or that they're enablers. I think he's wrong on both points. But that doesn't make him a bigot. It makes him a man with a position regarding religion with which I don't agree. Neither you nor I nor anyone else gets to slap "bigot" on somebody because he takes a strong position on a certain group based on what are rational assessments.

I find myself in a very odd position in regard to Maher's comments on religious extremism. I'd go to war to protect anyone's right to wear a burqa, or to believe the fictions of the Testaments and the Koran. (Freedom of speech alone dictates people must be allowed to exchange tall tales about charlatan "prophets," "saints," and all sorts of fictional characters in ancient pre-enlightnment literature.) But I'd also be the first person to assess any culture compelling its citizens to wear burqas something far less than a "culture." These are not people with whom I'd associate. (Unless the retainer was really, really big.)

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

He's on HBO, so there are no advertisers to boycott. What are people going to do?

Perhaps get a fucking life? The guy said something monumentally stupid. But he's a racist like I'm a platypus.

He needs to understand we can't abide that language among white people -- particularly in the current climate.

But this is what comedians do. I watched Eddie Murphy's Delirious a few months back and was struck by just how many laughs he got from what'd be called homophobic material today. Is Murphy a homophobe? Fuck no. He was a comedian pushing the limits. Is Maher a bigot? No. But he's also not as talented as Murphy. Maher also conceded the right to make certain jokes when he became more political talk show host than standup.

Maher wants to be Lenny Bruce and Gore Vidal at the same time. It's a tricky gig.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Adder

He shouldn't but has before. And I don't mean the 9/11 comments, about which he was mostly right.

I'd love to see every American asked these questions, and compelled to answer in writing:

"A suicide bomber cannot be a coward: Yes or No?"

and

"If we attack another country, and the attacked country fights back, those fighters acting against us are not 'evil' for doing so, but simply acting rationally: Yes, or No?"

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

No, Maher is an anti-theist. He insults all religions equally, in the tradition of Harris, Dawkins, and Hitchens.

He's only called a bigot because he's been harsh on Islam for not policing its radicals. In that, he's too strident, but... he's only being factual. All religions are vehicles for awful behaviors, and Islam just happens to the one serving that purpose most luridly at the moment.

I don't agree with Maher that moderate Muslims have a duty to police the crazies, or that they're enablers. I think he's wrong on both points. But that doesn't make him a bigot. It makes him a man with a position regarding religion with which I don't agree. Neither you nor I nor anyone else gets to slap "bigot" on somebody because he takes a strong position on a certain group based on what are rational assessments.

I find myself in a very odd position in regard to Maher's comments on religious extremism. I'd go to war to protect anyone's right to wear a burqa, or to believe the fictions of the Testaments and the Koran. (Freedom of speech alone dictates people must be allowed to exchange tall tales about charlatan "prophets," "saints," and all sorts of fictional characters in ancient pre-enlightnment literature.) But I'd also be the first person to assess any culture compelling its citizens to wear burqas something far less than a "culture." These are not people with whom I'd associate. (Unless the retainer was really, really big.)

No, he's just another ignorant racist. He stereotypes brown people and attacks them as a group. He generally does so out of monumental ignorance and an unwillingness to learn anything. The idea you think he is being "factual" when he is so utterly, colossally ignorant is a useful data point.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

He's only called a bigot because he's been harsh on Islam for not policing its radicals.

Nah, that's not all he's said about Islam. Also, he's anti-trans and hates women.

Curiously, he may hate black people less than other groups he's gotten away with saying awful things about.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

But he's a racist like I'm a platypus.

When ever I think, "Is that person or thing racist?" the only answer I can conjure is "better ask Sebby."

I don't know if he's "a racist" but what he said was racist. Why are we making a distinction?

I watched Eddie Murphy's Delirious a few months back and was struck by just how many laughs he got from what'd be called homophobic material today.

You don't have to go very far back to find a ton of cringe-worthy material from a lot of comics, especially on women and queer people.

Is Murphy a homophobe?

Was he at the time? Probably. Is he now? I don't know the man. Neither do you.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by SlaveNoMore

We won't have to. That war already started in Europe and Merkel and her feckless pussy allies in France and Belgium continue to supply the ammo. In 3-4 years, most of Sweden and France, large swaths of Belgium, Germany and Denmark, will become unvisitable (and uninhabitable).

So, yeah, set the pawns and move the rook and the bishop to protect the king. Jimmy crack corn - I don't care. Never thought I'd become an Isolationist, but fuck 'em. Reap what you sow.

HOWEVER, I only logged in here thinking you guys - someone, anyone - might be talking about how Hillary has now completely gone fucking insane.

No comments on this? The last 2 days have been scary.

Blaming her loss on the DNC? The NYT? Facebook? Netflix? FFS, Macedonian tech? CNN - a friendly network, to say the least - listed some 30 targets she now blames for losing.

Her public meltdown is approaching the level of Captain Queeg with the marbles and the strawberries. Or for the kids that don't know film, Chuck in "Better Call Saul".

Every day she opens her mouth, another vote is cast - rightly or wrongly - for the GOP. (Chelsea too, for what it's worth.)

SlaveNo(Hillary - the gift that keeps giving)More

I find that, after what we have seen from the current Administration, you choose to rant about Hillary Clinton causes me to be extremely worried about your mental health.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by SlaveNoMore

TY - You are decent folk that votes Democrat for generally all the right reasons. I respectfully disagree with many...most...if not all... of them, but I respect our right to disagree. Hell, that is why we are friends. Public jibes and private cheers.

You are not a spokesman for the Dems, or more broadly the Left, but I will ask you what I feel is a legitimate question; to wit:

Does Hillary - every time she makes these deeper and crazier accusations - help or hurt the party?

Notwithstanding your post (and my joke), everything she's said the last 3 days have been all over the news. If I logged into it, my FB feed would be filled with ranting lunatics like BNB (oh right, nevermind, I deleted her when she called me a pussy) and others calling her some feminist savior.

She is a cancer to the Dems. Why does your ilk continue to support her?

It's political suicide. 2018 House is in play. She goes away, you could win, maybe.

SlaveNo(AskingQuestionsNoOneCares)More

I think you are generally delusional when it comes to Hillary. I don't know anyone (other than GGG) who is actively supporting Hillary other than to acknowledge that there is evidence that she got screwed. Most people aren't paying attention to her at all.

Get a fucking grip.

TM

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I hate Bill Maher anyway, but does he survive this one?

Originally Posted by Adder

He shouldn't but has before. And I don't mean the 9/11 comments, about which he was mostly right.

He'll survive it. He has many problems, but chief among them is thinking that because he is friends with many black celebrities and "prominent" black people,* that he gets to joke the way they do when he happens to be in the room smoking weed. Although no amount of head from Karrine Steffans grants you license to start using the word, "nigger" with impunity--even if you're an ally--he'll be fine.

TM

*Cornell West needs to fade into Bolivia.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally Posted by Adder

I don't know if he's "a racist" but what he said was racist. Why are we making a distinction?

I'm not sure I'd put him in the racist category for this. I think his unconscious bias pops up a little too often (this tends to happen to white liberals who assume they've been accepted by blacks and get a little too comfortable). His comments about Obama not really being black ("He's more like Wayne Brady") is quite common with white people who think they've conquered their own racism. Black people can't be nerds or classical musicians or English professors, etc., because they lose that authentic "blackness" which white people have defined as "street." Shit, I've heard people from lawtalkers talk about how black professionals or black movie stars should focus on real black problems instead of whether or not they get paid the same as their white counterparts.

Sadly, this phenomenon also occurs in black communities, which is why Maher thinks it's okay to perpetuate.

TM

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

Just quoting this because sebby thinks I'm the only who ever posted drunk.

I don't drink these days. Imagine how much fun that makes the Trump presidency.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall

I find that, after what we have seen from the current Administration, you choose to rant about Hillary Clinton causes me to be extremely worried about your mental health.

TM

It's hard to be pro-Trump, so a lot of conservatives are choosing instead to be anti-anti-Trump.

Relatedly, the core of conservatism these days is pissing off liberals.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

No, he's just another ignorant racist. He stereotypes brown people and attacks them as a group. He generally does so out of monumental ignorance and an unwillingness to learn anything. The idea you think he is being "factual" when he is so utterly, colossally ignorant is a useful data point.

He is being absolutely factual about Islam being the religion of most terrorists today. How can you even attempt to dispute that?

And he's not "ignorant" to argue that normal Muslims should police the fundamentalists. In that, he's simply wrong. He's unfairly leveling an obligation on people who have no such duty.

And none of his criticisms of Islam as a silly religion make him a "racist." Your comment above on that issue is just... dumb. First, he assails all religions as silly. And Islam is, yes, silly. The Koran is fictional nonsense. Like the Old and New Testament, the Book of Mormon, etc. Objectively, they are all silly. They are not sacred things we may not insult. If anything, to progress as a species, we ought to denigrate them more, to marginalize their influence as much as possible. Second, Islam and "brown people" are not synonyms. Islam's adherents are of a variety of backgrounds. Arguing Maher hates brown people, which he absolutely does not, based on his dislike of Islam makes no sense.

...Except in this one regard: It makes sense to people like you, who speak broadly and like to throw around blunt moral judgments. You should step back a bit and think before knee-jerking to "racist." One can perhaps argue Maher is bigoted toward religion. This criticism would stick. But that's not good enough for you, is it? You want to nail Maher for a crime much worse than that. You want to lump him in with the alt-right, with David Duke types. Sorry. It doesn't work. And what you attempt here, which is what you attempt every time these issues come up and you blurt a moral critique that crumbles under the slightest scrutiny, undercuts your aim. Sometimes, it's not a wolf, and on matters like this, you need to be more than a little boy with a keyboard.