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Old 11-16-2017, 04:36 PM   #3001
ThurgreedMarshall
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
A stage kiss? Not so sure.
I did two plays in college. Both called for a kiss. Both were full kisses. I'm not an expert on drama or the theater, but neither I nor my partner (in either case) ever thought to fake it.

And I'm not defending him or his behavior (although, it's starting to feel like I am). Even if it were Kevin Spacey, I wouldn't think it was assault.

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Old 11-16-2017, 04:38 PM   #3002
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I think the similarity lies in what the Democratic Party's positions should be when it comes to certain issues and how those who are leaders in the party should comport themselves relating to those issues. Obviously the two issues are completely different. But if, in either case, we are to send a message as to what is appropriate and we expect our party leaders to act consistently with that message, I want to know why we should think of one differently than the other. Just because the expected action to be taken is different is irrelevant.

Sexual Harrassment: Those who engage in it are unfit for office and should step down or forced out.

Perception of Wall Street Corruption: If you take money from Wall Street, even after you leave office, it creates a perception of corruption and you should decline all such offers.

If you believe that we need to send a message about what we think about accepting money and therefore need to create a blanket rule to avoid the perception that the party condones or overlooks corruption when it comes to itself, how is that different than sending a message about what we think about sexual harassment and the need to create a blanket rule to avoid the perception that the party condones or overlooks it when it comes to itself?

TM
I'm not keen on blanket rules. If a Senator is fifty years old and harassed someone when he was twenty, is he unfit? Maybe, but people mature and change. If a Senator is sixty-five years old and harassed someone when he was sixty? Harder to believe he is a different person now. I also don't believe in any rule about the Wall St thing. I wish Obama hadn't taken that money, but I don't believe it was anyone else's place to tell him what to do. And if he had a standard speaker's fee of $1000 and signed to speak in front of the Scranton Elks, the Minnesota State Fair, and Goldman Sachs, I would think he should do the first two but not the third.
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Old 11-16-2017, 05:09 PM   #3003
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I'm not keen on blanket rules. If a Senator is fifty years old and harassed someone when he was twenty, is he unfit? Maybe, but people mature and change. If a Senator is sixty-five years old and harassed someone when he was sixty? Harder to believe he is a different person now. I also don't believe in any rule about the Wall St thing. I wish Obama hadn't taken that money, but I don't believe it was anyone else's place to tell him what to do. And if he had a standard speaker's fee of $1000 and signed to speak in front of the Scranton Elks, the Minnesota State Fair, and Goldman Sachs, I would think he should do the first two but not the third.
Fair enough.

But I'm going to go ahead and admit that I won't be able to let the Obama thing go since I never heard that particular criticism from anyone (and there were many besides you) until after he started cashing in.

Last edited by Tyrone Slothrop; 11-16-2017 at 05:18 PM.. Reason: sorry, meant to quote, not edit
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Old 11-16-2017, 05:18 PM   #3004
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Fair enough.

But I'm going to go ahead and admit that I won't be able to let the Obama thing go since I never heard that particular criticism from anyone (and there were many besides you) until after he started cashing in.

Sorry, meant to say that I wouldn't think he should do the first two but not the third. In other words, can certainly imagine him giving Wall St speeches I would have no problem with.

I thought HRC was a dope for doing those speeches to Wall Street. It really hurt her. She was widely criticized for that before Obama did his speeches. I thought the people criticizing Obama picked up on it precisely because it seemed to hurt her so much.
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Old 11-16-2017, 05:25 PM   #3005
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I thought HRC was a dope for doing those speeches to Wall Street. It really hurt her. She was widely criticized for that before Obama did his speeches. I thought the people criticizing Obama picked up on it precisely because it seemed to hurt her so much.
Again, the distinction with Hillary was that everyone knew she was going to run for President after taking the money. If she were done after her first run, there shouldn't be an issue at all. But taking huge amounts of money from people who will have business before her if and when she becomes the most powerful person in the world is very different.

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Old 11-17-2017, 10:15 AM   #3006
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Fair enough.

But I'm going to go ahead and admit that I won't be able to let the Obama thing go since I never heard that particular criticism from anyone (and there were many besides you) until after he started cashing in.
People have been criticizing Presidents for cashing in post-office since Nixon sat down with Frost.

Bill Clinton was pilloried for it.

Why no one criticized HW for joining Carlyle and cashing out I never understood. Probably because that involved an industry the average voter didn't understand.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:20 AM   #3007
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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So it looks like Al Franken has a second victim coming forward....

This is getting schadenfreudtastic.
I know someone who's hired him. Supposedly, super high-maintenance, and snippy as all fuck. But his wife's supposed to be lovely.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:31 AM   #3008
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I'm not keen on blanket rules. If a Senator is fifty years old and harassed someone when he was twenty, is he unfit? Maybe, but people mature and change. If a Senator is sixty-five years old and harassed someone when he was sixty? Harder to believe he is a different person now. I also don't believe in any rule about the Wall St thing. I wish Obama hadn't taken that money, but I don't believe it was anyone else's place to tell him what to do. And if he had a standard speaker's fee of $1000 and signed to speak in front of the Scranton Elks, the Minnesota State Fair, and Goldman Sachs, I would think he should do the first two but not the third.
This sexual harassment accusation hurricane may burn out for exactly the reason you note. Shock headlines about somebody in his 70s having grabbed someone's ass in 1981 are not worthy of ink. And mixing those sorts of TMZ stories in with serious allegations of rape and pedophilia confuse the issues. On one hand, people who read nothing but headlines (basically, 90% of America) will assume a randy old codger like HW is a rapist. On the the other, people will be overcome with allegations and accidentally lump rapists, who should be severely criticized and prosecuted, in with ass-grabbers.

Right now, dozens of famous men have been accused of various levels of lecherous to criminal behavior. I'd need an Excel spreadsheet to straighten out who engaged in illegal behavior from who engaged in mere odious behavior. And that distinction is vital. Al Franken and Roy Moore do not belong in the same sentence. Probably not the same paragraph, or on the same page.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:39 AM   #3009
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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"rapists, who should be severely criticized"
Whoa there fellah, that's some strong language you're bandying about.

So, within minutes of seeing Orrin Hatch's explosion of righteous indignation about being from modest roots and how he's just try to help the poor with his tax plan, I see that the GOP quietly snuck in a tax break for private jet owners into the plan.

Dear Orrin Hatch, please take your hypocritical phony indignation, douse it in Macallan 25, ignite it, and shove it back up your withered asshole where it came from. Love, Flower.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:50 AM   #3010
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Whoa there fellah, that's some strong language you're bandying about.

So, within minutes of seeing Orrin Hatch's explosion of righteous indignation about being from modest roots and how he's just try to help the poor with his tax plan, I see that the GOP quietly snuck in a tax break for private jet owners into the plan.

Dear Orrin Hatch, please take your hypocritical phony indignation, douse it in Macallan 25, ignite it, and shove it back up your withered asshole where it came from. Love, Flower.
Limited to jets? Penske is going to be pissed. I told him not to buy a prop plane.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:53 AM   #3011
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I know someone who's hired him. Supposedly, super high-maintenance, and snippy as all fuck. But his wife's supposed to be lovely.
I know lots of people who have worked with him who do not say that (they do about Franni).
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:18 AM   #3012
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I know lots of people who have worked with him who do not say that (they do about Franni).
I guess I'm ok if Franken stays in the Senate. That way there's a living, breathing reminder to Minnesota that they are the biggest morons in the country (except, perhaps for Alabama. We'll see if the current polling is good or if there's a Bradley effect).

See Jesse Ventura.

See also

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Old 11-17-2017, 11:32 AM   #3013
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I guess I'm ok if Franken stays in the Senate. That way there's a living, breathing reminder to Minnesota that they are the biggest morons in the country (except, perhaps for Alabama. We'll see if the current polling is good or if there's a Bradley effect).

See Jesse Ventura.

See also

Wait, are you a Texan calling people from Minnesota morons? That's good stuff. Also, you should be aware that Minnesota has more than its fair share of hate-filled backwards-ass hillbilly redneck fucks that make up the base of your party. See Michele Bachmann.
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:40 AM   #3014
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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Wait, are you a Texan calling people from Minnesota morons? That's good stuff. Also, you should be aware that Minnesota has more than its fair share of hate-filled backwards-ass hillbilly redneck fucks that make up the base of your party. See Michele Bachmann.
I'm not a Texan.

And I don't know what you mean by "my" party. You have a bunch of redneck Federalist Party members in MN?

I briefly attended college in your part of the country and had a total skank of a roommate from Lake City. I would deduce based on my interactions with her that she's from the redneck part of the state.
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:46 AM   #3015
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Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.

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I'm not a Texan.

And I don't know what you mean by "my" party. You have a bunch of redneck Federalist Party members in MN?

I briefly attended college in your part of the country and had a total skank of a roommate from Lake City. I would deduce based on my interactions with her that she's from the redneck part of the state.
I'm not really a Minnesotan and don't know what Lake City is, but appreciate the perfectly generic Minnesota town name. Saying "the redneck part of the state" implies that there is "one" redneck part of the state.
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