"Let he that is without sin among you cast the first stone."

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Speaking as a normal person who had the preeminent trial on Intelligent Design take place in the middle of his state, how do you even begin to approach the insane?

You know that old saw about how it's easier to litigate against a guy who knows what he's doing than an incompetent? It's kind of like that, I'd assume. What do you do but gasp and shake your head?

I think a large part of the "normal" people in this country gave up on this stuff long ago because we realized that, sadly, we were tilting at a windmill far larger than we ever imagined. There's an irrationality in this country that feeds off criticism. The more you slay it with common sense or simple non-massaged data the more it seems to get larger, angrier... more assertive. It's almost like the thing is powered by its own inability to summon a sensible argument in favor of what it preaches.

The Bible Belt has been shown to be everything it claims it isn't and none of what it claims to be. It lags behind us in education and earning and outpaces us by huge leaps in terms of corruption, deviance, divorce, dysfunction and poverty. And yet the more its dirty laundry is hung for the neighbors to see, the more it baldly stands athwart reality and fights back, as though none of the evidence of its rot were apparent.

It's the most amazing form of suspension of disbelief and willful ignorance I have ever seen. I'd love to know how they do it because the delusion is psychologically fascinating. They've managed to totally sidestep the scientific evidence and make the thing into a culture war, as if that somehow undoes the fossil record.

ETA: No offense to Texas, RT. I know TX is not the Bible Belt and is a state of largely sensible people. But the sorts who'd pass this nonsense are "Bible Belters" to me.

None taken. It's a big state with lots of people, which means a bigger number of idiots than most. Unfortunately, this bunch of idiots got organized.

What irritates me the most is that the couple that started this particular right wing movement in Texas had no children. They just had nothing better to do.

I remember a history textbook about five years ago was dropped because it contained a completely factually accurate section that explained that there was a lot of prostitution in the newly settled American West. Apparently it was an excellent textbook, and it was geared to eleventh and twelfth graders. But teaching that particular part of American history was a little too much for the delicate sensibilities of the TEA.

Oh, and for years they loved to go after anything that suggested we were fucking up the planet.

I really want to send my kids to public school, but if I do, their education will be heavily supplemented.

[1436]

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan

Of course, people in this country are so fucking stupid already that it probably doesn't matter.

Hank this may be a new signature for you:

"Because I care about the United States of America and what future we may have much more than I care about being right or being wrong"

It could help you rationalize yourself out of that betting problem as well. You have to think more like a Bible Belter, which is less.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Speaking as a normal person who had the preeminent trial on Intelligent Design take place in the middle of his state, how do you even begin to approach the insane?

You know that old saw about how it's easier to litigate against a guy who knows what he's doing than an incompetent? It's kind of like that, I'd assume. What do you do but gasp and shake your head?

I think a large part of the "normal" people in this country gave up on this stuff long ago because we realized that, sadly, we were tilting at a windmill far larger than we ever imagined. There's an irrationality in this country that feeds off criticism. The more you slay it with common sense or simple non-massaged data the more it seems to get larger, angrier... more assertive. It's almost like the thing is powered by its own inability to summon a sensible argument in favor of what it preaches.

The Bible Belt has been shown to be everything it claims it isn't and none of what it claims to be. It lags behind us in education and earning and outpaces us by huge leaps in terms of corruption, deviance, divorce, dysfunction and poverty. And yet the more its dirty laundry is hung for the neighbors to see, the more it baldly stands athwart reality and fights back, as though none of the evidence of its rot were apparent.

It's the most amazing form of suspension of disbelief and willful ignorance I have ever seen. I'd love to know how they do it because the delusion is psychologically fascinating. They've managed to totally sidestep the scientific evidence and make the thing into a culture war, as if that somehow undoes the fossil record.

ETA: No offense to Texas, RT. I know TX is not the Bible Belt and is a state of largely sensible people. But the sorts who'd pass this nonsense are "Bible Belters" to me.

dude, they are picking the science texts for the state of Texas. someone should fight that.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

we are all looking at something never before seen in this election. this is the first time someone here chnaged his vote. of course, this requires revisiting any bets, etc.

I suggest that all bets made by a vote-switching sock be void to avoid any internal conflict for the voter.

You feel you can do this in good conscience since the Board fees for RT are so much lower now?

S_A_M

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Secret_Agent_Man

You feel you can do this in good conscience since the Board fees for RT are so much lower now?

S_A_M

my bet was set at the old fee. i think the two socks that brought the most persuasive arguments, ggg and adder, should pay. it looks like $160 each.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

my bet was set at the old fee. i think the two socks that brought the most persuasive arguments, ggg and adder, should pay. it looks like $160 each.

[Spanky]

Originally Posted by Gattigap

I'm no economist, but I've been reading people who point to that argument and say it's just Neo-Hooverism, that Hoover let the banks fail, went for austerity measures, and deepened the depression as a result. What we need, they say, is to stimulate the fucking economy.

I don't really know the answer because I've never studied the Great Depression. YMMV.

Both Hoover and Roosevelt turned the depression into the great depression by restricting free trade (smoot hawley tariff) and insisting on balancing the budget.

In a depression you open the markets, spend like crazy and cut taxes. That is why WWII is the only thing that pulled us out of the depression.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Spanky

In a depression you open the markets, spend like crazy and cut taxes. That is why WWII is the only thing that pulled us out of the depression.

Perhaps you could tell this to your candidate, who's answer thus far is to lie about saving people's houses, and stress that he will balance the budget by getting rid of earmarks.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally Posted by Spanky

In a depression you open the markets, spend like crazy and cut taxes. That is why WWII is the only thing that pulled us out of the depression.

Doesn't that describe the last 8 (if not 28) years?

[Spanky]

I think someone mentioned that racism has greatly dissapated in the country. I think America is the least Racist country in the world. But that is like saying I abuse drugs less than everyone else in the Betty Ford Clinic. I have an African American nephew (long story) and hanging out with him, I have seen some pretty crazy stuff. When you are white and hanging out you just don't see it. But hang out with an African American enough and you get to see it.

Me and my nephew did a lot of partying together when we lived together in LA and had a lot of run ins with the cops. Twice when I was passed out in the back of my cadillac and he was driving, he got a DWB. One time he was in the back, I was driving, a cop pulled us over, and when I rolled down the window the cop didn't even address me, he just pointed his flashlight at my nephew and asked to see his I.D. I once came home and there was a cop in my house harassing him and I had to throw the cop out.

[Spanky]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

Doesn't that describe the last 8 (if not 28) years?

What I was saying was how you pull out of them, not avoid them. The market is driven by two forces, greed and fear. When people start getting greedy and doing stupid things, you get a bubble market or something similar, and then panic of some sort (loss of consumer confidence etc) then you start diving into a recession. The way to pull out is to cut taxes, increase spending (preferaably on infrastructure), and lower trade barriers. However, once you pull out you should try and balance the budget for reasons I think are obvious (high interest rates, inflationary pressure etc).

When Bush came into office we were entering a recession so he cut taxes and raised spending, the bad part was he didn't try and balance the budget when we got out of the recession.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally Posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)

Doesn't that describe the last 8 (if not 28) years?

That was my thought. My question is -- what do you do when you've been doing that for a while but are headed towards a depression anyway?

S_A_M

[Spanky]

Originally Posted by Adder

Perhaps you could tell this to your candidate, who's answer thus far is to lie about saving people's houses, and stress that he will balance the budget by getting rid of earmarks.

Or I could tell your candidate even mentioning raising taxes, or messing with NAFTA or the WTO is incredibly dangerous in the current economic climate.

My client has consistently said he is committed to free trade and to not raising taxes. That in itself would calm the markets if he were way ahead in the polls. But unfortunately the one saying the incredibly stupid things is ahead in the polls so the markets are still very jittery.

[Adder]

Originally Posted by Spanky

Or I could tell your candidate even mentioning raising taxes, or messing with NAFTA or the WTO is incredibly dangerous in the current economic climate.

I'm not sure it is as dangerous as you would suggest, but I am happy to have to mention it to him. Nothing is going to change with NAFTA or the WTO.

My client has consistently said he is committed to free trade and to not raising taxes. That in itself would calm the markets if he were way ahead in the polls. But unfortunately the one saying the incredibly stupid things is ahead in the polls so the markets are still very jittery.

If you really think the markets' problem is Obama, I think you are crazy. And if there is one person among the candidates and the sitting present who is least likely to do anything crazy (in the actual, erratic, not thought through sense of the word), it is Obama.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

my bet was set at the old fee. i think the two socks that brought the most persuasive arguments, ggg and adder, should pay. it looks like $160 each.

Obviously, the bets remain in place.

Remind me how it works. We have bets on two things, the winner and the most flipped states, and then a bet on flipping one state that is double or nothing on both bets.

Oh, and welcome to the big tent!