LawTalkers - Election 2010: Teabaggin' the Ds & Rs

Disagree. Some people are built for math and putting together complex _____. Some are built to write. Rarely is someone blessed with great skill in both. I have clients whose brains work the hell out of mathematical analysis, make a mint, but can't construct a sentence to save their lives (and no, it's not laziness). I know brilliant lawyers who write wonderfully who can't take a percentage if need be.

Some people are born to be business people, love risk and can do serious math damage. Those guys go one way. Those of us who can write and think about problems analytically, have a more structured thought process and who don't necessarily like risk tend to go another.

I'm not built for either, really. But what can you do?

TM

I'll grant that your rule is generally true. But I think there are more of the exceptions who can do both than you're allowing. I'd say 25% of people have the wiring to both convey complex thoughts clearly and assess and profit from risk mathematically.

I think specialization is pushing people into narrower work roles that don't allow as much generalist thought as they might have applied in the past.

What can you do? Probably anything, provided you can act a part. We all have that friend in a hedge fund who was a history major, or know that math major who's writing screenplays in Hollywood. If I threw you into an Ibank and gave you twelve months to familiarize yourself with the terminology and methodology, do you have any doubt you wouldn't be at least be proficient analyst or trader? In three or so years promoted up the ladder?

sebastian_dangerfield

10-22-2010 03:03 PM

Re: Cry me a river.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 436488)

I tend to agree with pretty much everything that Ezra Klein said about the matter.

BTW, a few years ago, I saw a list of the salaries of the top five NPR on air staff, in a required disclosure on the public 990. In the 2008 return, Renee Montagne, host of Morning Edition, is number one at $360,826. Her co-host, Steve Inskeep, comes in as number two at $353,390, and Robert Siegel, host of ATC comes in at number three at $319,300. Juan Williams' jump to Fox at $2M for three years eclipses what he's been making over at NPR by a massive, massive amount. The guy is crying all the way to the bank.

I want to work at NPR. That's nice money for some pretty easy and interesting work. Add in their speaking fees and book deals and those three probably do $500k+ a year.

Hank Chinaski

10-22-2010 03:04 PM

Re: Cry for the Republic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 436513)

I'll grant that your rule is generally true. But I think there are more of the exceptions who can do both than you're allowing. I'd say 25% of people have the wiring to both

First if the country is full of morons it ain't 5%.
the sweet Spot should be patent attorneys, except everyone who really gets the engineer side can't advocate and vice versa. Go watch a patent trial some day.

ThurgreedMarshall

10-22-2010 03:04 PM

Re: Cry for the Republic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 436513)

Maybe. 25% of people in general or 25% of current high level business and attorney types? I might agree with the latter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 436513)

If I threw you into an Ibank and gave you twelve months to familiarize yourself with the terminology and methodology, do you have any doubt you wouldn't be at least be proficient analyst or trader? In three or so years promoted up the ladder?

I think they would laugh at my atrocious math skills while I was relearning them. And if they didn't fire me after the first 30 times I fucked up something, I might learn enough to be in a position to not be a total loss.

TM

sebastian_dangerfield

10-22-2010 03:07 PM

Re: Cry me a river.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 436494)

My affiliate started the biannual pledge drive yesterday. I'm curiuos how much this will impact donations. So far they're at $208,532, looking for $1.1 million by the end of next week.

Firing Williams and getting picked on by Fox might be a golden ticket to a boatload of liberal donations. Perhaps it was all a grand, evil conspiracy?

I hate the pledge drives. Fucking hate them. The pings and the Jerry Lewis telethon structure of the things are beyond grating. They could do much better with a constant, low key drive instead of that quarterly 24/7-sprint-to-economic-goal model.

Hank Chinaski

10-22-2010 03:09 PM

Re: It's not cause you're stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 436511)

Yeah. I didn't think so.

TM

Sometimes talking to you here feels like when I give adder sex advice.

sebastian_dangerfield

10-22-2010 03:15 PM

Re: Cry for the Republic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 436516)

Maybe. 25% of people in general or 25% of current high level business and attorney types? I might agree with the latter.

I think they would laugh at my atrocious math skills while I was relearning them. And if they didn't fire me after the first 30 times I fucked up something, I might learn enough to be in a position to not be a total loss.

TM

I know a quant trader who was previously a jewelry designer and I've an extended family member who didn't know stock markets from fish markets before daddy got her a gig at a hedge fund. She picked the essentials up damn fast.

Granted, complex trading is a unique skill. I overplayed my hand suggesting anyone can do that. But the rest of my point stands. And really, how is being an analyst all that different from structuring a deal or poring over financials in the average piece of commercial litigation? I was an English major, but when I've had to argue or try cases involving business shit, or work with accountants and economists on expert reports, even I gained a short term facility the numbers.

Hank Chinaski

10-22-2010 03:16 PM

Re: Cry for the Republic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 436516)

Most jobs that involve math use pretty repetitive models that have been developed by super brains. The jobs require being able to recognize when the model yields something that seems wrong. That takes pretty good math skills. But people who can actually work with math on virgin systems? .5% maybe.

ThurgreedMarshall

10-22-2010 03:22 PM

Re: It's not cause you're stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 436518)

Sometimes talking to you here feels like when I give adder sex advice.

In that you're not really qualified to give anyone sex advice?

TM

Hank Chinaski

10-22-2010 03:27 PM

Re: It's not cause you're stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 436522)

In that you're not really qualified to give anyone sex advice?

TM

Well yeah, that and the fact that it doesn't matter that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Replaced_Texan

10-22-2010 03:29 PM

Re: Cry me a river.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 436514)

I want to work at NPR. That's nice money for some pretty easy and interesting work. Add in their speaking fees and book deals and those three probably do $500k+ a year.

I suspect that the average NPR reporter / employee makes well under $100K. But I also suspect that they rather like what they do. Every one that I've ever met seems pretty cool.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

10-22-2010 03:31 PM

Re: It's not cause you're stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 436522)

In that you're not really qualified to give anyone sex advice?

TM

I've been trying to parse these relationships logically.

Sex:Hank:Adder = Basketball:TM:Hank?

Now, I'm a lawyer, so math just isn't my strong suit, but if I'm right, this isn't a normal arithmatic or geometric series. Some kind of exponential series? Still, the Hank: Adder relationship seems to be dealing with fairly minute numbers, so it's hard to figure out exactly.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

10-22-2010 03:39 PM

Re: Cry me a river.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 436524)

I suspect that the average NPR reporter / employee makes well under $100K. But I also suspect that they rather like what they do. Every one that I've ever met seems pretty cool.

Slideshow of horrors for Juan

ThurgreedMarshall

10-22-2010 03:48 PM

Sounds about right

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/211549/VOTING-FLOWCHART.jpg

TM

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