Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

What else would it have been? I used the voice of a priest.

Nice try on the Milo thing. Get the peanut gallery of the echo chamber all hot and bothered.

(I fully realize this is an abhorrent mixing of metaphors. But imagine it's a half filled peanut silo...)

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

Stop with this bullshit. When people disagree with you (or agree with each other) it is not evidence of an echo chamber. Get this: Sometimes it's because what you're saying is so fucking stupid that no one agrees with you. This lazy attempt to reduce someone's argument to an attempt to jump in to fit in is fucking garbage.

Likewise, you never seem to mention this echo chamber phenomenon when people agree with you, so drop it. It's stupid. No one here gives a shit if other people agree with them.

TM

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

This is about as good a place to offer a coda as any others I've seen. You and I have argued the most, so I'll turn my sword over to you.

Goodbye.

It's been a truly wonderful, highly enjoyable run. I've had some of the most fun exchanges I've had anywhere - and I've had many - right here.

But I can't, and I won't, find myself bored. And bored is exactly what we'll all become, terminally, if we degrade to a circular firing squad of moral scowls... if we become more interested in drawing the boundaries of what one is allowed to do, say, or think, rather than having an open back and forth.

There's nothing less interesting than a deeply offended person.

It's just not fun to play the contrarian anymore. Perhaps I should expect it. The election of that clown has made us a deeply self-righteous and bitterly divided culture.

There's very little worth believing in or valuing deeply aside from having as much freedom as possible. I'd put that at the top of the list. I'd put righteous opprobrium's value somewhere just north of wooden nickels.

I wish you all the best, and I hope the strain of indignation that's run through this place, and the rest of the country, abates.

There were a lot of good one liners. Thanks for the laughs, and the numerous adjustments to my thinking over the years. It's invaluable stuff.

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

I thought he didn't have any of that. My third grade teacher was Mrs. Leicester. Not schoolmarmy at all. I recall very distinctly sitting in the back of the class listening to the Multiplication Rock record and memorizing my multiplication tables. I had my sixes down cold. The Daily Dose is Bob Dorough with "I Got Six":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WV2_v-LNyI

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

I think people like you more than they like the contrarian you keep playing.

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

I don't follow. I thought your post summed up our two options for President well and pointed out that you favored one when it came to who you would prefer to work for, but couldn't commit your vote to the same type of person for President. I'm not sure how you got that I am offended or how my response is part of a circular firing squad.

But what is even more confusing is you admitting that you love to play the contrarian and then fading into Bolivia when too many people call you on it.

TM

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

Oh great. Now look what you did. First you drove Hank off this board with your Thought Police Totalitarianism, a now Sebastian. That is like 75% of all the posters on this board. Nice going. Sebastian, I'm going to miss you most of all, which is why I am posting an unprecedented second Daily Dose in your honor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I2f1UJjiAA

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

ahh, this started because I was being a dick to adder. I have always been a dick to adder, so much so that when I was in Minn he created a new category of not wanting to meet Hank: he didn't even respond. At least flower and fugee had the courtesy to lie and say they were out of town.

still, I should stop being a dick to him.

and the last time I remember LT posters stepping in and stopping some type posts was "flower is gay/flower is a girl." I remember being offended by the censorship, but we got over it. And you know what? I am better for having learned the lesson. I have no problem with gays. Why would I want to post such things as an insult? and I actually see people on FB still who are way more liberal and enlightened than me doing such posts. I'm glad ncs and RT took the time to shut me up re. that.

maybe you just need a few days away.

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

A. To be fair, people don't know how delightful you are in real life.

B. All of us do. In fact, that is a goal we can all work on together - be less of a dick to Adder.

Yes. Or maybe go to the Fashion Board and post something interesting. Bands with horns, swinging free and easy in your Hickey, battling in court with the [Sheldons? I forgot the name he used. Misty, water-colored memories, etc], how SJP looks like Roger Daltrey with tits, etc.

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

*barf*

Fuck you. I was never a dick to Adder. Except when he said that songs without instruments were not real music. But in my defense, I was just saying the same thing that Thurgreed was saying. Just in a much dickier way. Also, there may have been other times when I was a dick to Adder.

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

You realize that you're the only one who's deeply offended, you spoiled child?

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

Fuck that.

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

He's gone, Adder. Your words are just whispers in the ether.

Now that he is gone, though, I have to admit that he was right about this place being a total echo chamber. I like that about this place. The same thing being said over and over in slightly different ways can be extremely soothing, kind of like ambient electronica.

Sebastian, though, he would have none of that! Like, he was the only one with the guts to say that not all Trump supporters are racist xenophobes. The rest of us sheep just kept repeating over and over, "What are you talking about, nobody here ever said that all Trump supporters are racist xenophobes." But Sebastian refused to take part in the chamber, bravely calling us all out on the words we never said. I remember once he even "quoted" me saying that all Trump supporters were racist xenophobes when all you had to do was look at the post he was responding to to know that I had not actually said that. Ha! Good times!

*sniff*

Now, I'm getting a little sentimental. Part of me wishes Thurgreed had not forced him to leave. I just have to keep reminding myself that he's with Penske now, in a better place.

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

where do you think Penske is working out his demons now? I mean he can't possibly keep all that bottled up in his brain, can he?

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

Pretty sure he is passed out in a little pile of Canadian ice wine boxes.

Re: But it wouldn't be nothing without a woman or girl.
 

Um, so now what? I'll see if I can fill the void.

So, I think the complete contempt for and willingness to lie to the press is just a smokescreen to distract from the progressive policies that the Big T and his cabinet will be pushing through in the next few months. Plus, I'm pleased with the lending environment we are now enjoying. Discuss.

Today's Daily Dose is some early Fatback Band. "Let's Do It Again":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnwGBfbCUKA

White Power!
 

<sniff>If only we had Sebby back so he could tell us how stupid I'm being for pointing out this very clear white power symbol being made by Trump's top adviser.</sniff>

http://occupydemocrats.com/wp-conten...ITEEPOWEAR.jpg

TM

Re: White Power!
 

I spend a few days traveling and come back to check in and you all have driven Sebby off. What did you all do that I hadn't?

As to Miller, do we really need hand gestures to figure out that he's a damned white supremacist and misogynist? I mean, you can just listen to him.

Re: White Power!
 

Plus, the dude went to Duke.

Kidding aside, I saw this picture a couple of days ago (along with Kelly Anne Conway's tweet* saying "I love you too!" to a white nationalist, and I said what the fuck? Dog whistles so loud that the cats are complaining, but my GOP friends** just shrug in embarassment and change the subject to spring training or the Oscars while mentally calculating their Trump/Ryan tax cut.

*She said she was hacked. Please. Why can't she just admit that she didn't realized that she was replying to a Klan member? I mean, I don't always read the bios of people on Twitter, but I guess working for Trump means that one can never admit that one made a goof.

** My Trump-voting relatives, by contrast, tend not to be embarrassed while they say things like "blue lives matter" and "they're not supposed to be here in the first place, so boo-hoo that they get deported while dropping their kids off at school." I have stopped talking to several of them.

Re: White Power!
 

I'm not hearing the dog whistle -- can someone explain?

Re: White Power!
 

The three fingers on his right hand represent the "W" and the pinched thumb and forefinger on his left represent "P."

Snopes doesn't buy it, but no one in the history of suits has adjusted their jacket in this clearly carefully practiced way.

TM

Then they came for the dinosaurs, and I didn't speak up because, fuck dinosaurs, man.
 

Christian Laettner, of course. I *said* that Miller went to Duke. Jesus Christ, Ty.

ETA: Plus what TM said. And given everything else these guys have done, they really don't deserve the benefit of the doubt on this kind of thing.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Good afternoon.

Since this forum's leading Malthusian Bucket o' Gloom has (mercifully)absented himself, and nature abhors a vacuum, allow me to step up to the plate to dish up The Great Pension Collapse As Seen By George Will:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.10abce11d9d2

Say what you wish about Mr. Will, I don't believe the numbers lie. The teachers and firemen and cops who are relying on public pensions have virtually no hope of getting paid in just a very few years. State and municipal governments cannot bear the burden, and no politician is going to ask taxpayers for the money needed. Domino effect when added to the other predictable factors, some of which are mentioned in the column.

I am on the Board of my Pension Plan. It is comfortably overfunded, has very low return on investment assumptions, and there are other reasons to believe it is bulletproof. But we're all going to either pay for the past promises of politicians to civil servants, or pay for the ensuing poverty programs when the well runs dry.

Dissent, anyone?

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

It's too bad that Will paints this as a problem created by Democrats. Republicans are equally capable of decisions that feel good in the short run but are bad in the long run. Hello, Bush tax cuts. But Republicans like to stick it to government unions.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Atrios:

I mostly like the Alien line.

ETA I also liked this, from Tyler Cowen:

What goes on within the Attorney General's mind?
 

Is there a principled reason that trans bathroom policy should be made by states, but smoking pot should be criminalized at the federal level? If so, I'm not seeing it.

Re: What goes on within the Attorney General's mind?
 

Principled? Of course not.

TM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Further to my theory on the foreseeable pension collapse, today's news indicated that the Mayor of Detroit is shocked....shocked....to learn of the size of the problem. He now threatens to sue Kevyn Orr, the emergency manager who guide Detroit into some semblance of functionality.

While I don't know Orr well, we have met, and discussed problems of mutual concern. I can't see him as someone who, intentionally or otherwise, cooked the books, or hid the size of the looming pension deficit.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...nces/98302920/

Re: What goes on within the Attorney General's mind?
 

One wonders why, if protecting kids in bathrooms from... other kids, is so important, why our brave Commander in Chief doesn't affirmative act to do so rather than leave it up to the sanctuary cities he hates.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

People said the same about Madoff tho.

That's what makes a con man so good.

Wherefore art thou Sebastian?
 

CNN, NY Times and LA Times are all blocked from White House press conference. I almost wish Sebastian were still here so we could see what pathetic absurdist bullshit he would spray out his ass in an attempt to justify this major goosestep toward totalitarianism.

Re: Wherefore art thou Sebastian?
 

I have tried to avoid calling Trump a fascist, but I don't know how you get around it now.

TM

Re: Wherefore art thou Sebastian?
 

I with you. You start calling someone a fascist because they have policies you don't like, you devalue the word. But how long until we have a state-sponsored press?

Re: Wherefore art thou Sebastian?
 

You mean other than Breitbart? (I debated including Fox News here, but decided not to because Rupert Murdoch's media is whatever Rupert Murdoch wants it to be. Which can change.)

I'd say that Trump is an instinctive fascist. He has people around him who are deliberately fascist and others (thank God for the generals) who - so far - are keeping things somewhat Not Fascist.

Speaking of fascism, someone pointed me to a 20 year old essay by Umberto Eco on fascism. Remarkable.

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.
 

Nice job, Washington Post.

Re: Wherefore art thou Sebastian?
 

Trump is a moron. And as the richest person in his circle, this means he wants everyone to just do what he says and not question him, because he can't handle it. Someone like that has a lot in common with a fascit, regardless of his politics and who's around him.

Funny how these people gravitated toward him.

Re: Wherefore art thou Sebastian?
 

While there certainly are a lot of parallels between Trump and fascism, I don't think it helps things to use that label. It doesn't tend to persuade, particularly since fascism is widely understood as a European phenomenon. Better to be specific about Trump's authoritarianism, and to make sure that what is doing sticks to the Republican Party, as in the end they will try to weasel away from him, as they did with George W. Bush. I have respect for the few principled conservatives who continue to oppose him, but most conservatives and Republicans have not only made their peace with him but are fully on board. Trump is more popular right now with Republicans than Reagan was, even as the rest of the country rejects him. Don't call him fascist -- call him Republican.

Re: Wherefore art thou Sebastian?
 

Just curious, what do you think separates him from fascism?

Re: Wherefore art thou Sebastian?
 

"Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos." I don't think Trump has many beliefs, or an ideology. I think he has impulses, but hasn't done the intellectual work to turn them into a system of beliefs. Also, he is essentially a narcissist, and that his narcissism, when put in the top government job, drives him and others around him to a sort of crude authoritarianism, but it doesn't have the ambition to be totalitarianism. One of Trump's problems is that there are very few people he can or will trust, and he has a whole government to staff, which obviously isn't working well. Other Republicans (and especially those who were previously part of government) are mostly not into his cult of personality, which is why he doesn't trust them and also why it's important to tie them to him. If Trump believed in something larger than himself, he could leverage those beliefs to win the support and loyalty of those around him, but he doesn't and so struggles with that.

Re: Wherefore art thou Sebastian?
 

tl;dr. He's got narcissism of a dictator, but is too stupid and lazy to be a fascist.