MSU's Sparty makes all of us who are well over 6 foot and ripped seem one-dimensional and too quiet.

http://images.google.com/url?q=http:...com/sparty.jpg

Personally, I'm glad the winning team's state is simply red, and not motherfuckin' red.

I don't see her much since she started with horses.
 

I can confirm now that there is in fact a Hyatt in Cleveland, and that it's quite delightful.

I don't see ethnic stereotyping in mascots as racist. The distincyion is subtle, but important.

Racism, as I understand it, is the classic "blacks should be separate" or "whites are more advanced than blacks, etc..." attitudes. It is an offshoot of slavery and the prevailing attitudes that made slavery acceptable in its time. Nobody is saying that Native Americans are less human than anyone else when they use the Seminole mascot. In fact, having read about what warriors, the Seminoles were (fucking up all sorts of Union Troops sent to kill them), its kind of a nod to state heritage, and a bit of a compliment. I mean, here's a school of drunk white kids who have an Indian as their mascot. But that's sort of an aside. My real point is that racism shouldn't be confused with ethnic insensitivity. I think the black/white base of racism is unique, and using the term "racism" to cover things like bad choice of mascots degrades the very specific and ongoing issue of racism that still exists today. I guess, simply put, racism to me is a black/white thing.

I get ticked when I hear people refer to anything as a "new racism" or a "modern Holocaust." I just don't think the two can be used as analogies to ethnic insensitivity. Perhaps I'm being too narrow in my definitions... You could say its nothing more than a semantic objection on my part - that "ethnic insensitivity" and "racism" are interchangeable. But I don't think so.

Well. In the border regions, no promises.

disengage Seb.

Call it whatever, you wouldn't see a team called the "insert any black or asian handle." This is true regardless of whether it were an insulting name or a "proud" name.

I find the name of the Houston NFL team, but more because it's embarrassing to be associated with the team.

Come Monday...
 

I need to tell you. One of the very best things about Autumn? Candy apples. I am a happy girl. One of the worst things? Chapped lips. Ouch.

Come Monday...
 

I like rediscovering items in my sweater/cooler weather drawer.

Come Monday...
 

It sounds like you had a fun weekend. I am liking the fall weather as well.

I am not liking my boyfriend too much right now. He is like 50% fantastic, and 50% really super-annoying. Right now the super-annoying is winning out and must be sensing it because he just sent me a very gushy e-mail to which I'd like to respond "fuck you." fuck.

fuck. fuck. fuck.

Come Monday...
 

Like the cashmere cable-knit vibrator?

Come Monday...
 

One of the best things: sleeping with the windows open and an extra blanket on the bed.

One of the worst things: still wearing summer maternity clothes -- linen pants, no less -- in mid-October. I envy all women who can wear jeans right now. (Although bringing the baby home from the hospital dressed like a little pumpkin will make up for it.)

Go Astros!

What drives me nuts is that most of the kids out picketing the Noles are white suburban kids who don't even understand the gripe they're making. It also strikes me as kind of odd that only groups that have been historically victimized get to air the gripes. Why can't I raise a protest against Notre Dame? Doesn't their mascot paint Irish as dim brawlers in the same way the Seminoles' paints Indians as warriors? Yet nobody chides ND. Why is that? Is it because the Irish aren't as easy a group to get behind? Are we that unsexy a cause for the Berkeley Crowd? We were victimized... "Irish need not apply."

They changed it from "Drunken" to "Fighting," though I really don't see much of a difference.

Although I see where you're trying to go with this post, I don't think it makes much sense at all.

I don't understand where you get the idea that racism only exists as a "black/white thing." Asians were interned. Native Americans were slaughtered and removed from their land. Blacks were enslaved. All of these things were done, at least in (large) part, because of the colors of the victims' skin and the attitudes of whites towards them. One can argue that slavery is different, as an institution than these other problems, but that doesn't somehow change the definition of racism as it is applied to people who aren't black. And I'm not going to address "new racism" or "moderen Holocaust" because I don't really know how you are applying either here. To me, racism is racism.

This idea that you can be ethnically insensitive without looking at the root of such insensitivity is bullshit. The type of attitude that is behind someone saying, "Injuns are no good, lazy drunks (and I ain't gonna hire one, my daughter ain't gonna date one, etc. -- and I believe this is the type of "real" racism of which you speak)," is the same as, or is the foundation for, the attitude where one finds it okay to turn a race of people into a mascot for one's amusement.

The fact is, when you look at people that way, you perpetuate stereotypes and attitudes towards a group who is fighting hard to be recognized as people and not some image that has been thrust upon them by those in power. If you don't want to be viewed as some kind of savage, being labeled a "Redskin" and caricatured to the point of being reduced to a mascot of some fucking football team, ain't gonna help.

I guess my point is, a society that can tolerate something like that (over the objection of the very people being caricatured) is the type of society that will tolerate the many more tangible (for lack of a better word) types of racism towards Native Americans (among others).

If you watched the old Looney Tunes when you were a kid, like me, you were probably bombarded with savage or sambo images of blacks. You can argue that they're harmless because "they're just cartoons, after all." Or you can look deeper and ask yourself how that affects people (white, black, hispanic, whatever). I don't see a difference between that and the "Me scalp 'em, and then smoke peace pipe" mindset of "the drunken white kids" running around in full Native American dress at these games. And if you think that any (there are exceptions to everything, of course) of the fans think of it as a "nod to state heritage," then we shouldn't even be arguing.

TM

I can't argue with this type of logic.

TM

Can you guys please put subjects on your posts
 

so i don't have to actually read the text to figure out if I want to read something or not.

Thanks

Horses make good glue
 

No.

TM

Fuck You, sunny
 

I can't argue with this type of logic.

Horses make good glue
 

I think you have a crush on me.

I hope the Astros make it to the series, too. But lest we forget:

Six outs away from the World Series, up 7-2, with Nolan Ryan on the mound and the 16 inning game .

Horses make good glue
 

No doubt it's because he heard you're dating a black slam piece. You know, once you go...

Because a considerable number of people associated with Notre Dame are actually Irish, or decendents of the Irish. Because ND goes over and plays a football game in Ireland every couple of years and sells out Croke Park (hell, they're allowed to play in Croke Park, which is otherwise allowed only to host traditional Irish sports - rugby and soccer are not permitted). Because ND has a giagantic Irish Studies program dedicated to studying both the history and culture of Irland on the one side and studying methods of resolving the continuing political strife in the country (in a serious way, not in a give the IRA arms kind of way).

I'm not seeing that connection at Florida State.

ETA: I can't believe I just defended fucking Notre Dame.

The Atoka Wompuscats
 

Uncool, man. Totally uncool.

Hey, we have indian casinos here in Florida.

2, except for the last sentence.

Horses make good glue
 

Yep. You, paigow, nfh and purse junkie. I want you all.

TM

Wasn't SD's point that "Fighting Irish" stereotypes Irish as drunken brawlers, so the "fighting" part of the name is problematic, not the "Irish" part.

"Courteous Irish" doesn't have much of a ring to it though.

No one needs to remind me of a Houston team's ability to fuck up at the last minute.

Horses make good glue
 

Concurrently?

So there's no need to post this?

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/lo...TURE_log07.gif

See you on Saturday?

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/j....champs.ap.jpg

The wikipedia article on Notre Dame (obviously not necessarily authority) says this: My high school teams were called The Rebels, and we had a paiper mache 10 foot Johnny Reb as our mascot and our black and red colors sort of resembled Confederate flags. Maybe my junior or senior year, the offensiveness of the mascot came up, and Johnny Reb was done away with (I think they turned him into keychains), and we were just the Rebels without a mascot.

Maybe three or four years ago, someone decided that wasn't good enough, so a school wide referendum was held (including imput from the alumni) and I think it was last year that the name changed to The Mustangs.

I kinda liked the Rebels as a name (without Johnny Reb), but given the history of the word with relation to our school, we were never going to drop the association with the Confederacy unless we dropped the name. I was one of four minorities in my graduating class, and I think the school finally clued in that retaining traditions that are offensive doesn't really help with minority recruitment.

Kinda sorta related, my college team changed its name in the 30s. The team name, like the Fighting Irish, was supposed to evoke the fierce tenacity of a particular ethnic group in central Europe. That ethnic group started, er, fiecely and tenaciously trying to eradicate many of the other ethnic groups in central Europe, and my college decided that we didn't want to be associated with them anymore. We are now an extinct flightless water fowl. Much less fiercly tenacious, but more accurately descriptive of a Division III team.

ETA: Er, college website says the name was changed in the teens. I assume the ethnic group was pissing people off then too.

The University of El Paso Mafia Hitmen?

If you can make it down to Houston, I can show you the baseball stadium.

Maybe, but I don't think that's the reason they're the Fighting Irish. Aren't lots of mascots the "fighting" something, or the "running" something? Even with all the comments about the "drunken" or "fighting" Irish, there isn't much derision of them as the mascot. In fact, a lot of people who actually are of Irish descent like Notre Dame. Every time I go to a Notre Dame game and walk around the campus, it's all about respect and honor and tradition. The leprechaun-guy cheerleader isn't goofy - just dressed goofy - he's doing all the chees and pushups and all that stuff with everyone.

Contrast this with the Native American mascots, which are more based in stereotypes, do absurd things that aren't based in reality, aren't supported by the respective "real" people from that ethic group and aren't represented in significant number by the people who comprise that group.

The NCAA is about to play hardball with all the college teams, and the pro sports teams will have to do so next. The Redskins, in particular, have to be on their way out pretty soon. That's a legitimate slur.

I'll look for flights. I don't even know how to react. Welcome to NeverBeenHereBeforeSoIdon'tKnowWhattoDoVille. Population: Me.

Da Sox.

http://snl.jt.org/arc/epskit/91-05-18-5.jpg

balt was raising a "standing" argument, or maybe a "free pass" argument. Since Irish people ran ND he argues they can call themselves the Drunkin Irishmen or whatever, like rappers can say N-----.

To me ND is okay because the sterotypes are dead, or at least near to it. plus it's one school, not an entire Catagory of mascot, and that makes it somehow less objectonable.

It's not my point - I was just bored and following up.
I'm part Irish and I like to fight. Go me.