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-   -   Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=875)

sebastian_dangerfield 03-30-2016 01:16 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 499915)
I can't find the post now, but I am pretty sure that I mentioned on this board that Cruz would have been on my laminated list, were I to have one.

Everybody has a Cruz story (people who knew him in college and law school, mostly).

Every one of them is variant of this:

"He's incredibly smart - perhaps the smartest person I knew. He is pathologically ambitious, and an incredibly hard worker...

And if I saw him at 100 yards, I'd run. He's the biggest dickhead I've ever known. He's only out for himself and would knife his mother for power. He's enormously annoying and probably on the spectrum. The man can't speak but to claim he knows everything and start a heated debate on some third rail issue...

Seriously, he's the biggest tool I've ever known. We used to hide when we'd see him at parties."

The man has no real friends, no alliances, and at this late stage can barely summon meager endorsements. The only thing he has going for him is he's lied to enough dimwit evangelicals to have acquired second place in a race against a man who has the highest unlikeablility ratings in political history.

Sidd Finch 03-30-2016 01:19 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 499921)
Good God. What happened to you as a child?

TM

Is she one of the denizens of this board who fucked Less? That might explain things.

Adder 03-30-2016 01:22 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 499916)
Or perhaps one can agree that it is important to help the poor, but believe that government is not the best or most effective way to do so.

I don't think there's much evidence for that, and there is much to the contrary, but yes, one could believe that, I guess.

SEC_Chick 03-30-2016 01:23 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Does anyone have any thought as to how the release of the DC Madam's records could impact the 2016 presidential race?

One of the candidates or do you think it's Bill?

http://wtop.com/presidential-electio...cords-or-else/

Adder 03-30-2016 01:38 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 499926)
Does anyone have any thought as to how the release of the DC Madam's records could impact the 2016 presidential race?

One of the candidates or do you think it's Bill?

http://wtop.com/presidential-electio...cords-or-else/

Could be Trump. Could be Kasich. Timing doesn't seem right for Cruz.

Could be Bernie, but he doesn't seem like the type.

Hillary would be the most fun.

Hank Chinaski 03-30-2016 01:41 PM

Re: Trump/Sanders Voters
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 499907)
Was his wife hot?

Russian girl, but she reportedly kept her moustache trimmed.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-30-2016 01:58 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 499927)

Hillary would be the most fun.

Dissent: Melania.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-30-2016 02:02 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 499925)
I don't think there's much evidence for that, and there is much to the contrary, but yes, one could believe that, I guess.

That's the hole in Libertarianism. People informally organized are not the best means of helping those in need. The Churches will not do it (particularly the ones polluted with "prosperity gospel") adequately. The communities won't do it adequately.

The argument isn't whether the state or private citizens should maintain the safety nets. It's clearly a state thing. The argument is how far the safety nets should go.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-30-2016 02:05 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 499921)
Good God. What happened to you as a child?

TM

I actually asked my wife about this a while back. The truth is, plenty of women would bang Ted Cruz.

Her price was $57,000,000.00.

ThurgreedMarshall 03-30-2016 02:20 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SEC_Chick (Post 499916)
Or perhaps one can agree that it is important to help the poor, but believe that government is not the best or most effective way to do so.

Yes. Best way is probably to tie it to religion so that we can force those who don't share our viewpoints to listen up if they want help or even better, restrict assistance to those who agree with our ideas! Much more efficient that way.

TM

ThurgreedMarshall 03-30-2016 02:25 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 499919)
The Minneapolis cops shot a black man, Jamar Clark, in the head last fall. The cops who shot him tried to tackle him to cuff him and said that after the tackle failed to control him, he grabbed the tackling officer's gun. The other officer said he gave a warning and then fired. The county attorney says DNA evidence corroborates this because Clark's DNA was on the officer's belt and gun.

Some eyewitnesses said Clark was handcuffed at the time he was shot. The officers said he wasn't. The prosecutor says physical evidence suggests he wasn't, as there was no bruising on his wrists and no blood or DNA on the inside of the cuffs (Clark's blood was on the outside of the cuffs, which were found in the grass).

There will be protests. Many who protest will believe that the man was cuffed (I think the prosecutor made a reasonable case that he wasn't). Apparently state law (according to the prosecutor) says you have to judge them at the moment they decided to use the force in question. If so, maybe no charges is the legally appropriate outcome.

But there's video. It doesn't show everything, so it's hard to tell, but the impression is clearly two idiot cops show up to a scene that isn't particularly chaotic and escalate to a man's death in just over a minute.

The prosecutor said that having failed to cuff the man immediately, one of the cops tried to tackle him because he had been trained at a prior job that it is a good way to get cuffs on someone. Clearly it is not, and the prosecutor's statement certainly implies that he and perhaps the MPD don't think it is. That decision - to immediately use force to gain compliance - led directly the chaos that ultimately justified the force that killed the Clark. That's the problem.

The two bumbling officers probably legitimately did fear for their lives, because they had failed to control the situation and wound up apparently believing the Clark was going to get control of one of their guns. That's enough, I guess, to exonerate them, but it doesn't exonerate the system.

You have the video of the shooting? I can't seem to find it amongst the videos of the aftermath and protesting.

TM

ThurgreedMarshall 03-30-2016 02:34 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 499927)
Could be Trump. Could be Kasich. Timing doesn't seem right for Cruz.

Could be Bernie, but he doesn't seem like the type.

Hillary would be the most fun.

"names and addresses of eight hundred fifteen Washington, D.C. clients"

That's [a big reason] why you don't do this shit, even if you're a nobody.

TM

Adder 03-30-2016 02:34 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 499933)
You have the video of the shooting? I can't seem to find it amongst the videos of the aftermath and protesting.

TM

Not really, it's just out of frame here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdtE...ature=youtu.be

Everything that the County Attorney has released is here: http://www.hennepinattorney.org/news...form=hootsuite

The County Attorney on the tackle:
"in a current news conference, freeman said take down move by ringgenberg not favored or taught by MPD"

And the timing:
"freeman concerned incident took 61 seconds to become fatal"

Pretty Little Flower 03-30-2016 02:51 PM

Re: Trump/Sanders Voters
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 499908)
But that reply adds little to the back and forth TM and I were having.

You cannot be seriously cluck clucking your disapproval of me because my response did not elevate your nuanced political discourse and/or substantively and meaningfully address arguments such as: "They got dumber. And they kept fucking. And now we're in Idiocracy." What if I tell you that I was just tying to lob a hand grenade into a endlessly repetitive and increasingly absurd debate. (Seriously, I think you are the only person other than stripper-obssessed rappers who cares so passionately about the fate of the $100 bill.) But, o.k., for the millionth fucking time: You keep saying (or implying) that Trump is going to end up being an establishment centrist surrounded by smart and practical advisors, and the whole racist, homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobia thing is just a convenient act he uses to get voters and that happens to dovetail, in part, with his REAL anti-golabilization agenda. But you are pulling this out your ass. I admit that I have no idea whether or how much of the whole racist bully thing is an act. AND THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM. It is just as likely that he is a racist, misogynist, xenophobe and this anti-globalization thing is just a convenient act he uses to get voters who are angry about lost jobs, and which happens to dovetail nicely with his racist xenophobic agenda. Actually, it is just one of the problems. Because even if you were able to convince me that you somehow had some magical fucking insight into the Trumpian brain and knew for a fact that it was 100% an act, the fact that he uses this act as part of his political strategy is disgusting and, alone, should completely disqualify him from being considered even remotely seriously as presidential candidate. Moreover, the fact that I am still having to explain this would be terribly disheartening if I actually gave a fuck about elevating the nuanced political discourse you are engaged in here. Instead, I will dedicate today's Daily Dose to you. Funkadelic, from 1972. A message of hope from the midst of a deeply troubled political landscape:

"Our country and our cities, they have been betrayed for money
Oh, and somehow, the people, they will make a change, yeah
There's not a doubt in my mind
If hunger and anger place the blame
There won't be a country left to change."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp93s2nmUhU

Gattigap 03-30-2016 02:58 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 499923)
Everybody has a Cruz story (people who knew him in college and law school, mostly).

Every one of them is variant of this:

"He's incredibly smart - perhaps the smartest person I knew. He is pathologically ambitious, and an incredibly hard worker...

And if I saw him at 100 yards, I'd run. He's the biggest dickhead I've ever known. He's only out for himself and would knife his mother for power. He's enormously annoying and probably on the spectrum. The man can't speak but to claim he knows everything and start a heated debate on some third rail issue...

Seriously, he's the biggest tool I've ever known. We used to hide when we'd see him at parties."

The man has no real friends, no alliances, and at this late stage can barely summon meager endorsements. The only thing he has going for him is he's lied to enough dimwit evangelicals to have acquired second place in a race against a man who has the highest unlikeablility ratings in political history.


Latest one I heard revolved around Cruz in college. At Princeton he was in the dorms playing poker with other guys (apparently not permitted under university rules) and had a bad night, ended up down about $2000.

He didn't have it. But instead of working something out with the other guys he owed the money to, he went to the RA in the dorm and ratted out his friends for playing poker in the dorms.

ThurgreedMarshall 03-30-2016 03:10 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 499935)
Not really, it's just out of frame here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdtE...ature=youtu.be

Everything that the County Attorney has released is here: http://www.hennepinattorney.org/news...form=hootsuite

The County Attorney on the tackle:
"in a current news conference, freeman said take down move by ringgenberg not favored or taught by MPD"

And the timing:
"freeman concerned incident took 61 seconds to become fatal"

Yeah. I'll say this. The fact that any witness account to any incident in which a cop is involved is overlooked in favor of the officer's account (and automatically and immediately ignored if the witness is black) by the prosecutor and seemingly every fact-finder in these cases is the issue.

My new favorite is the "Stop resisting, don't go for my gun," bullshit they shout to justify beating the fuck out of (or straight murdering) someone. But they only started doing this when cameras were introduced and it's almost always, conveniently, said off camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVaU8qm2LhQ

TM

sebastian_dangerfield 03-30-2016 03:10 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gattigap (Post 499942)
Latest one I heard revolved around Cruz in college. At Princeton he was in the dorms playing poker with other guys (apparently not permitted under university rules) and had a bad night, ended up down about $2000.

He didn't have it. But instead of working something out with the other guys he owed the money to, he went to the RA in the dorm and ratted out his friends for playing poker in the dorms.

He's the "Alex P. Keaton joins the Hitler Youth" candidate. Socially awkward tool raised by religious nut parents takes venom out on the world by adopting radical lunatic views. Goes to law school, ratcheting up douchebag-with-Aspergerer's tendencies (any doubt Cruz was the gunner who asked irritating questions with :30 minutes left in class?). Then, of course, off to work in politics.

Adder 03-30-2016 03:15 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 499943)
Yeah. I'll say this. The fact that any witness account to any incident in which a cop is involved is overlooked in favor of the officer's account (and automatically and immediately ignored if the witness is black) by the prosecutor and seemingly every fact-finder in these cases is the issue.

Yeah, although its hard because we know eyewitnesses are horribly unreliable.

The officer statements (according to Freeman) that Clark said, "I'm ready to die" and had a "thousand-yard stare" certainly do nothing to make their version not sound entirely made up too.

ThurgreedMarshall 03-30-2016 03:22 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 499945)
Yeah, although its hard because we know eyewitnesses are horribly unreliable.

The officer statements (according to Freeman) that Clark said, "I'm ready to die" and had a "thousand-yard stare" certainly do nothing to make their version not sound entirely made up too.

It's the good old magical, unstoppable, hyper-Negro yarn that is either used to justify criminal behavior by the police or worse, actually believed to be true, which leads them to treat black people like wild animals that need to be put down.

TM

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-30-2016 03:36 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 499932)
Yes. Best way is probably to tie it to religion so that we can force those who don't share our viewpoints to listen up if they want help or even better, restrict assistance to those who agree with our ideas! Much more efficient that way.

TM

There are some great religious charities out there, including hospitals run by religious groups, and I have no doubt that conservatives could, if they wanted to, build some great charitable hospitals providing free or subsidized care on top of government assistance as an alternative in the red states.

But the ones that exist now (with the possible exception of St. Jude's in Memphis) depend very heavily on government and insurer payments for healthcare and I expect would love to see Medicaid broadened. I know one person on the board who could tell us for sure what would help her red state health care system.

Oddly, more of the big charitable healthcare institutions in the country though are in blue states, like Mass, NY, Michigan, and California, and the Red States rely more on for-profit healthcare that more broadly discriminates against the poor.

So, I don't think conservatives as a whole have chosen to care.

ThurgreedMarshall 03-30-2016 04:14 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 499947)
There are some great religious charities out there, including hospitals run by religious groups, and I have no doubt that conservatives could, if they wanted to, build some great charitable hospitals providing free or subsidized care on top of government assistance as an alternative in the red states.

But the ones that exist now (with the possible exception of St. Jude's in Memphis) depend very heavily on government and insurer payments for healthcare and I expect would love to see Medicaid broadened. I know one person on the board who could tell us for sure what would help her red state health care system.

Oddly, more of the big charitable healthcare institutions in the country though are in blue states, like Mass, NY, Michigan, and California, and the Red States rely more on for-profit healthcare that more broadly discriminates against the poor.

So, I don't think conservatives as a whole have chosen to care.

No disagreement. There are surely great religious and non-religious charities out there. But the idea that the poor in this country will be taken care of more efficiently and on anywhere near the current scale if government eliminated all programs providing assistance and handed that money back to us, is so fucking patently and overwhelmingly preposterous that the only type of person who would make this argument would probably also fuck Ted Cruz willingly.

TM

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-30-2016 04:24 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 499948)
... is so fucking patently and overwhelmingly preposterous that the only type of person who would make this argument would probably also fuck Ted Cruz willingly.

TM

SEC Chick, we love you, but you got to admit he makes a good point....

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-30-2016 04:32 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 499946)
It's the good old magical, unstoppable, hyper-Negro yarn that is either used to justify criminal behavior by the police or worse, actually believed to be true, which leads them to treat black people like wild animals that need to be put down.

TM

I have a new pet peeve on old yarns. One of my friends has a couple adamant Bernie supporters who keep going on and on on her FB page about blacks voting for Hillary being "low information voters". Often accompanied by a statement that they're voting against their self-interest and if they knew better they'd vote differently. WTF?

Replaced_Texan 03-30-2016 05:27 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 499947)
There are some great religious charities out there, including hospitals run by religious groups, and I have no doubt that conservatives could, if they wanted to, build some great charitable hospitals providing free or subsidized care on top of government assistance as an alternative in the red states.

But the ones that exist now (with the possible exception of St. Jude's in Memphis) depend very heavily on government and insurer payments for healthcare and I expect would love to see Medicaid broadened. I know one person on the board who could tell us for sure what would help her red state health care system.

Oddly, more of the big charitable healthcare institutions in the country though are in blue states, like Mass, NY, Michigan, and California, and the Red States rely more on for-profit healthcare that more broadly discriminates against the poor.

So, I don't think conservatives as a whole have chosen to care.

Do other state's have Shriners? They will take care of anyone who walks through of the door free of charge. Limited specialties, but they are amazing with their commitment to taking care of kids. The burn hospital in Galveston is world class. They are a bit of a pain in the butt to work with, though, because their board and hospitals aren't run by health care people but Shriners (a Freemason offshoot). So you have to explain every detail of why you can or can't do something. http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/ or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrine...s_for_Children

ETA: Every major healthcare organization in the Houston area is not-for-profit or governmental, including Harris Health, Hermann Memorial Health System, CHI St. Luke's, Methodist, Texas Children's, and MD Anderson. It's probably because the Med Center charter requires all organizations within to be not-for-profit and the hospitals systems grew out of the med center. HCA tried to buy St. Luke's about 15 years ago, and the ensuing litigation pretty much ensured that no for-profits will try again. There are a few for profit regionals and a few physician own specialty hospitals, but the not-for-profits dominate the market.

ThurgreedMarshall 03-30-2016 05:38 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 499950)
I have a new pet peeve on old yarns. One of my friends has a couple adamant Bernie supporters who keep going on and on on her FB page about blacks voting for Hillary being "low information voters". Often accompanied by a statement that they're voting against their self-interest and if they knew better they'd vote differently. WTF?

Well, Bernie was active with civil rights in the 60s, so our interests are automatically aligned on every. single. issue. to the end of time. And no matter what Hillary's positions are currently, the fact that she supported Goldwater over 50 years ago means she is a secret racist, disingenuous, shifty, right-leaning faux democrat.

I will say this, though: It's been a tough row to hoe getting over her bullshit tactics during the primary in '08. I understand that she probably puts this kind of racial jiggery pokery piggledly pookery in the same bucket as all other political gamesmanship, but I don't view it that way. That shit really pissed me off.

http://theweek.com/articles/567774/h...-2008-campaign

TM

Pretty Little Flower 03-30-2016 06:10 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 499951)
Do other state's have Shriners?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rist_cover.jpg

Hank Chinaski 03-30-2016 06:16 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 499953)

Non-responsive. That's from True Stories, right?

Pretty Little Flower 03-30-2016 06:47 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 499954)
Non-responsive. That's from True Stories, right?

DKs. Frankenchrist album cover.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-30-2016 07:34 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 499952)
Well, Bernie was active with civil rights in the 60s, so our interests are automatically aligned on every. single. issue. to the end of time. And no matter what Hillary's positions are currently, the fact that she supported Goldwater over 50 years ago means she is a secret racist, disingenuous, shifty, right-leaning faux democrat.

I will say this, though: It's been a tough row to hoe getting over her bullshit tactics during the primary in '08. I understand that she probably puts this kind of racial jiggery pokery piggledly pookery in the same bucket as all other political gamesmanship, but I don't view it that way. That shit really pissed me off.

http://theweek.com/articles/567774/h...-2008-campaign

TM

Yeah, back then I started out really on the fence between her and Obama and it's part of what pushed me to Obama. There are some excuses and some apologies, yadda, yadda, but for me the long and short of it is (i) she made peace with Obama and became a big part of his success, so maybe its worth forgiving some of it; and (ii) people sure as shit shouldn't forget it.

I give Bernie credit too for backing Jessie Jackson once upon a time; I think his campaign could use a little more Jessie in it, with his empowerment talk, as opposed to Bernie and his economics lectures. But my real problem at the moment is not what Bernie or Hillary did at any time in the past, its what some asshats are saying right now that makes me want to reach through the internet and strangle them.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-30-2016 07:37 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 499951)
Do other state's have Shriners? They will take care of anyone who walks through of the door free of charge. Limited specialties, but they are amazing with their commitment to taking care of kids. The burn hospital in Galveston is world class. They are a bit of a pain in the butt to work with, though, because their board and hospitals aren't run by health care people but Shriners (a Freemason offshoot). So you have to explain every detail of why you can or can't do something. http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/ or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrine...s_for_Children

ETA: Every major healthcare organization in the Houston area is not-for-profit or governmental, including Harris Health, Hermann Memorial Health System, CHI St. Luke's, Methodist, Texas Children's, and MD Anderson. It's probably because the Med Center charter requires all organizations within to be not-for-profit and the hospitals systems grew out of the med center. HCA tried to buy St. Luke's about 15 years ago, and the ensuing litigation pretty much ensured that no for-profits will try again. There are a few for profit regionals and a few physician own specialty hospitals, but the not-for-profits dominate the market.

We got a shriners burn center here. Currently has a problem in that they have more resources than they need, as there are fewer burn victims than there used to be. So they're trying to figure out other related areas to cover. Great place.

Hank Chinaski 03-30-2016 08:26 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 499956)

I give Bernie credit too for backing Jessie Jackson once upon a time;

okay, you dragged me back in, you think JJ would have been a good president? His creds were???

Hank Chinaski 03-30-2016 08:27 PM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 499955)
DKs. Frankenchrist album cover.

Ah, yes, but that was taken in Texas.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-30-2016 08:46 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 499958)
okay, you dragged me back in, you think JJ would have been a good president? His creds were???

Being one of the key leaders in the most important social movement in the last half of the 20th century, from Selma to Breadbasket to PUSH.

I know. That's nothing like say, being a first term Senator who is universally reviled by his peers or a guy who fired people on TV.

Hank Chinaski 03-30-2016 08:56 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 499960)
Being one of the key leaders in the most important social movement in the last half of the 20th century, from Selma to Breadbasket to PUSH.

I know. That's nothing like say, being a first term Senator who is universally reviled by his peers or a guy who fired people on TV.

smh

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-30-2016 08:58 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 499961)
smh

smh^2

Hank Chinaski 03-30-2016 09:03 PM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 499962)
smh^2

shaking your head is too noisy from the rattling. no offense.

Not Bob 03-31-2016 09:23 AM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 499963)
shaking your head is too noisy from the rattling. no offense.

AoN, I always read smh as "smack my head" which is a little stronger than "shake my head."

Anyway, I admire many things about Jesse Jackson, but to consider his candidacy in 1984 (or 1988) as something other than a protest movement is a bit too much. Yes, organized labor (the real part, not just teachers and government workers, NTTAWWT) liked him as they saw the New Deal coalition disintegrating and the technocrats and DLC types gaining control of the party.

But considering his leadership of Operation PUSH as a positive credential? Um. And as for his involvement in the Civil Rights movement, I'll grant you that (although many close to MLK have said that Jackson overstated his involvement with the SCLC prior to April 1968). And would Marion Berry have made a good president?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-31-2016 09:53 AM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 499964)
AoN, I always read smh as "smack my head" which is a little stronger than "shake my head."

Anyway, I admire many things about Jesse Jackson, but to consider his candidacy in 1984 (or 1988) as something other than a protest movement is a bit too much. Yes, organized labor (the real part, not just teachers and government workers, NTTAWWT) liked him as they saw the New Deal coalition disintegrating and the technocrats and DLC types gaining control of the party.

But considering his leadership of Operation PUSH as a positive credential? Um. And as for his involvement in the Civil Rights movement, I'll grant you that (although many close to MLK have said that Jackson overstated his involvement with the SCLC prior to April 1968). And would Marion Berry have made a good president?

Of course it was a protest. Absolutely. I was involved in the campaign in Chicago and that time and there was absolutely no one who actually thought Jesse might get elected. It was all about having some real delegates at the Convention.

But it ended up going beyond that because it was the first time a black candidate gathered substantial support across racial lines in a national election, even if it was just in the primary process and really just in a handful of states, including Vermont, before the campaign's implosion. That was huge and had a big role in many minority candidates being viewed as viable in races at all levels going forward. From that point on, there was a clear data point you could point to when someone said "but will whites vote for a black candidate".

Jesse personally ended up very disappointing, not just with the hymietown language but in lots of other ways, though there is an odd way that helped, because the discussion about whether or not you could get support for black candidate X became "even Jesse Jackson could get substantial white support...". We gotta get Wonk on here for any discussion of Jesse in Chicago. The impact is big and complicated, but I think on the whole very positive.

ThurgreedMarshall 03-31-2016 09:59 AM

Excellent Article
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/op...cans.html?_r=0

TM

ThurgreedMarshall 03-31-2016 10:03 AM

Re: As the choppers hover outside my window
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 499958)
okay, you dragged me back in, you think JJ would have been a good president? His creds were???

I don't think supporting a candidate is always about whether or not they would be a good President (especially one that has zero chance of winning). Sometimes it's about giving a voice to people who have none, or bringing issues that wouldn't be addressed in the campaign to light, or moving the leading candidate further left or right than they would otherwise.

TM


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