Originally Posted by Adder (Post 468461)

There were cabinet members? I just saw Biden's comments.

And I suspect they foreshadowed rather than forced the Obama position. This one time, I don't thin Biden bidened.

ETA: But feel free to conclude that this all means Obama's weak and easily manipulated.

Originally Posted by ironweed (Post 468462)

Ooh, yes, I get it -- because he's so weak that his cabinet can "force" him to "reverse" his position. He's a weak leader! I've heard this before. But wait! Maybe Obama is so conniving and clever that he had his cabinet members prepare the ground with their seemingly spontaneous statements. It was all a setup!

I am not sure which conspiracy theory plays better for Fox News, but I am sure someone will be along to clarify it for me shortly.

And I am glad to see that Obama will be getting no credit for actually saying the right thing from anyone. Because not only am I getting your "failure of leadership" meme from the right, I am reading lots of "oh so now after four years finally" whinging from the left. But whatever, it's probably a wash anyway, because for every college kid this will inspire to get off his or her ass, there is almost certainly a bigot in a swing state somewhere who will hold his nose and vote for Romney now.

Originally Posted by sgtclub (Post 468466)

Yes. Several. And no, foreshadowing is not how the game works, especially if the president is going to make a major change in an election year.

Originally Posted by sgtclub (Post 468460)

Did we just witness a stealth mutiny?

Obama is forced to reverse his position and state publicly he favors same sex marriage after several members of his cabinet come out publicly in support. Typically, cabinet members tow the party line, but in this case they did not, and the timing is suspicious.

Originally Posted by sgtclub (Post 468466)

Yes. Several. And no, foreshadowing is not how the game works, especially if the president is going to make a major change in an election year.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 468463)

You do agree that he is doing the right thing, right?

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 468473)

I do. otoh, as Ironweed says, it might not be the politically smart thing to do, but of course he was never against gay marriage.

we are at a crossroad on this issue. several Michigan people I know were posting the "Marry your cousin" thing, and I ask "didn't Michigan pass a ban?" they point to the differences in the extent of the ban as if the bigots that voted for it were the toeing the line between civil union and marriage. bullshit.

It's time for a leader to say "enough."

Originally Posted by ironweed (Post 468464)

Poor, naive GGG. The conversation can't be about whether he did the right thing, because then people who hate gays will have to talk about that outside the cozy confines of a Rick Santorum campaign event. Awkward! The conversation has to be about how Obama is simultaneously a slick and cynical manipulator, AND also weak and getting pushed around by Joe Biden et al., and whether he's made a "political mistake" by potentially mobilizing stay-at-home bigots to get out and hold their noses for Romney. Also, WHAT ABOUT THE PRICE OF GAS? HUH?

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 468477)

I do note club hasn't addressed the issue of whether it is the right thing to do. We're relying on Hank here for sanity from the right. What a brave new day!

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 468479)

I think club has been pretty clear in the past in saying that he thinks it's the right thing to do.

I think it's remarkable that he can't give Obama any credit at all for doing the right thing, but that's a different conversation.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 468480)

I suspect he believes it would be the right thing for anyone other than Obama to do.

But I don't know. Club seems to have been devolving under the Tea Party influence.

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 468485)

club has been clear. You are being a disingenous ass. I suspect Club, like me, thinks that Obama's "evolution" has been equally disingenous and 100% politically and crassly expedient in all aspects and timing.

LessinTelAviv (reading Nixonland and not inclined to give any sucfessful pol the benefit of any doubt).

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 468485)

club has been clear. You are being a disingenous ass. I suspect Club, like me, thinks that Obama's "evolution" has been equally disingenous and 100% politically and crassly expedient in all aspects and timing.

LessinTelAviv (reading Nixonland and not inclined to give any sucfessful pol the benefit of any doubt).

Originally Posted by LessinSF (Post 468485)

club has been clear. You are being a disingenous ass. I suspect Club, like me, thinks that Obama's "evolution" has been equally disingenous and 100% politically and crassly expedient in all aspects and timing.

LessinTelAviv (reading Nixonland and not inclined to give any sucfessful pol the benefit of any doubt).