Bad Dad
 

Oh yeah, that's exactly what Nicollette Sheridan told her mom in "Paper Dolls" before she became a debauched teenage cokehead, and don't even get me started on what happened when those NYC vultures got their hands on Tootie in "Facts of Life" and started dressing her all provocatively before Mrs. Garrett stepped in to save her...

Bad Dad
 

I'll second this. If you approach it as a fun thing to do once, it's one thing. It's quite another to say that this is what she's going to do with her life. I knew a girl growing up who occasionally did some modeling work - she'd show up in local ads, or in fashion spreads in the local paper, but it wasn't a big deal for her. She had an agent who gave people her head shots, and sometimes something came up. She seemed pretty normal. College, business degree, works in marketing for a small company, etc. There was another girl who was moderately more frequently in such things whose mother seemed obsessed. She ended up pretty screwed up. Baby at 17, etc.

So I don't think modelling is nearly so important as how the parents approach it.

Personally, I'm a little disappointed in the baltspawn - by the time the Olsen twins were their age, they were making like $250k a year. The baltspawn have never brought in a dime.

Fat
 

On the flipside from GGG's comment, remember that "I look fat in this" may mean something very different in the 5-yr old's mouth from what it means in your ears. I remember one of my kids around that age describing a well-loved family member as "fat" without a trace of negative connotation; it was just a description. We had to explain the concept of sensitivity about one's body image.

In your case, it sounds as though your son does have a negative association with "looking fat," but that doesn't necessarily mean he's absorbed the whole range of American social stigma that ties into that phrase. Possibly he just heard someone once wondering if "I look fat in this" and picked it up as a concern people have about clothing.

Anyhow, he's got a long time to learn about social attitudes and form his own opinions, and a good teacher at hand.

Fat
 

Perhaps he was saying "I look phat" because he was wearing a Triple F.A.T. Goose jacket.

Bad Dad
 

There's got to be a good children's book about this for 10-year-olds. Maybe Madonna can do that one next.

kid modeling and body image
 

Greedy did the right thing- its not just about anorexia (IMHO), but not embracing the value system that defines girls by their physical beauty in the first place. Even if she never came close to an eating disorder, the priority modeling would place on her appearances would be highly distracting. I knew some boys growing up who were child actors- did a lot of commercials, one even had a role in a major movie- they seemed incredbily isolated from the regular world of childhood, and not terribly happy most of the time. (FWIW).

re: the 5 year old: that would be startling; I'd think it only disturbing if he started making comments like that at mealtimes, or focusing on weight when he describes people. We can't raise our kids completely "fat blind," because there is a health issue involved, but it seems to me as long as the issue remains health, there aren't the same body image/eating disorder issues looming (bulimics don't purge to be healthier).

Besides, if his winter coat is anything like my kids' winter gear, its not a matter of appearing a little chunky- he probably doubles his size when he puts it on. So his comments are probably just an accurate observation, not a sign of growing insecurity about body image.

Phat Boy
 

OMG. I cannot BELIEVE you just called DTB's kid fat. !!

To DTB: I would be interested in his reply if you asked him where he heard about "being fat." Maybe he is being exposed to some weight-obsessed person that you can ask to shut up around him. (PS I've only heard of one male anorexic - Billy Bob Thornton.)

On the modeling issue (and this issue too): it makes me think about how the comments are already starting with Vietbabe: the type of comments I don't want her to hear lest they make her think "looks are everything." People mean well but I'm hearing stupid stuff that it's great that she doesn't eat much because she will be "skinny like most Asian girls", and (much more offensive) "You know...she doesn't really look Oriental because her eyes aren't that slitty". I could never let her model no matter how good a contract was -- I know the focus on looks would just bother me on principal. I'd get physical the second they applied eyeliner to "open up the eye". I'd be a very very bad stage parent.

Vietmom

Scary sometimes
 

I was visiting a grad-school friend a while ago, who has taken off the last few years from her univ. position to do the mommy thing. Her latest book is in suspended animation, and we were going over it and talking about where she was in her editing and how anxious she was to get back to her faculty and get back to work once her younger kid was in preschool. Her older daughter (4-5 ish) walked up to us and threw the manuscript of the book on the floor, saying it was a "bad thing," and threw a complete tantrum demanding that her mom promise never, ever, ever to go to work, because only bad hateful mommies worked.

After this, I looked at my friend and said, basically, "holy shit." She said, "yeah, we have no idea where she gets it from. It's always been very clear that I am a professor, and that is what I do, and I want to go back to doing it as soon as possible. We think she picked it up at pre-school." What are they teaching in pre-school these days?

Phat Boy
 

I'm sure I've now compounded his body image problems.

Really, sometimes kids just say stuff and its only meaningful thru our adult lenses.

People who make dumb comments about baby girls growing up to be nice and skinny (even the ignorant Asian references aside) have clearly not had babies, at least not recently, and either don't know or have forgotten the anxiety over whether baby is gaining enough weight/eating enough. Ignore them if you can.

BTW, how is vietbabe doing? I seem to recall many posts ago you were worried about her weight gain.

Phat Boy
 

Like some of the stuff Bugs Bunny says!

Thanks for asking. I'm getting more comfortable it's just her. She's gained (though not as much as other kids) and she is probably destined to just lag behind in weight. She's 14 months and fits in 0-3 months clothes (except the pants are like flood pants, and the shirt is hard to get over her normal sized head; she's skinny and flat so everywhere else it fits). What astonished me was the results when parents with Vietbabes emailed heights and weights to someone who tabulated all the figures from birth to age 5. We made our own growth charts. Our kids are peanuts. Some of them are Vietbabe's weight and they are 3 years old. So I guess I have a future skinny Asian girl. Maybe if DTB's fat boy grows up to have an Asian Fetish they could get married or something and have normal sized kids.

Vietmom (Oh thank God the Babe can't read email.....Yet)

Not exactly related, but...
 

Two things:

1. You really need to stop him from reading the Fashion Board.
2. Probably wasn't a good parenting technique to correct him by saying "Honey, at least speak properly and say 'I look like a fat in it'"

LFM

Second Grade Blues
 

Turtle no. 1 is in second grade this year, blasting through the academic stuff, but having increasing difficulty holding onto her temper. She has always been a tad volatile (from birth, and I think before), and has always had a tendency to live in her own mind and respond better to written instruction than to verbal instruction. However, until this year, her most spectacular tantrums were reserved for family and she stayed on a reasonably even keel in school. Her teacher tells me it is not uncommon to see behaviors like this worsen for a time in 2d grade, because the activities are suddenly so much more structured and there is considerably less time for a child to "opt out" of activities than there was in kindergarten or first grade. That makes me feel a little better, but this seems like a reversal of what had been 2-3 years of steady progress developing some emotional maturity, and so causes me concern.

The school is very good, and the teacher very in tune with the various levels of ability among the students and conscious of the need of a few kids (including mine) to be given things that make them reach academically, so I don't think it is just a matter of not being sufficiently challenged in class, though sometimes there is some of that.

Anybody been through this? have any thoughts? thanks.

Phat Boy
 

Well, at the time, I just said -- it's just a puffy coat -- it's not you. And then when I went to school with him, I pointed out all the other kids in puffy coats.

A couple days later, I asked him where he heard about being fat. I asked him what made him worried about looking fat and he said that someone might call him fat. I asked if anyone had called him fat (which would have been very surprising) and he said no, so I asked who he thought might call him fat, or if anyone in his class called anyone else fat, the answers to which were all "no". I then asked him if he knew anyone who was fat, and he thought for a moment, then said, "the girls' babysitter upstairs is fat" (and he had a point there -- that woman WAS obese, but has recently lost probably about 150 pounds.) He couldn't come up with anyone else.

I told him that yes, she WAS fat, but now was eating nutritious foods and exercising, and isn't fat anymore. He couldn't come up with another fat person -- so I dropped it. I don't want it to become a way of his getting attention, which, ultimately, I think it was. The look of "forced sadness" on his face (which, looking back, I think it was) makes me think he was just looking for attention (a common theme with the new sibling in the house.)

I haven't heard any more about it, so I hope it is now a non-issue.

Second Grade Blues
 

Well dear, we talked about this at dinner last night. Do you really need to go to an anonymous internet board to get the opinions of others?

On the off chance that you aren't my wife and aren't talking about my daughter, rest assured that it is not abnormal. Continued consistent discipline is the only way to deal with most child problems.

Second Grade Blues
 

Can't be your wife- my DH hasn't been online since I posted. Point taken, though- could be many of us in the same boat.

I agree on the continued consistent discipline- at the same time I worry about regressive behaviors when the parental inputs (i.e., approach to discipline and other things) haven't changed at all.

Second Grade Blues
 

On this point, I attribute it all to her being female and therefore running her life in a manner designed to frustrate and confuse .:eek:

Second Grade Blues
 

well, there is always that. Pretty damn good at it, too.

Second Grade Blues
 

My first grader has become difficult as of late. I hope this is just an early manifestation of second grade blues. I would hate to think of her becoming even more obstinate next year.

Chant my mantra with me, people: "It's only a phase. It's only a phase. It's only a phase..."

Second Grade Blues
 

We now have a three year old who has discovered the joys of adult torture.

It is only a phase. It is only a phase.

Wiggles Live, and the Rumble in the Jungle
 

So we took Gatti Jr. to Wiggles Live, as our favorite Metrosexual Monochromatic Australian Friends Together with Assorted Animals descended upon our nation's capital.

Some assorted observations:

* Amusingly, I noticed that MCI Center's concessions were in full swing -- including beer sales. (Though tempted at the thought of being forced to watch Wags the Dog for an hour or so, I abstained.)

* After coughing up ticket prices, event parking fees, and concessions costs on par with a Stones concert, I felt I should've brought my lighter.

* Floor seats for a toddler show suck.

Unlike a [generic rock concert tour to be inserted here] show, where the "floor" consists of a teeming mass of humanity, and the expectations of the participants are to obtain occasional glimpses of the show but more importantly to seek hookup prospects, in a toddler show, the floor seats are actually, well, seats.

The expectations of those on the floor seemed to vary.

The kids, by and large, didn't give a damn how much of the stage they consistently saw. The aisles were great places to dance, sing and play with their heroes from the TV set.

The parents (at least some of them) however, wanted their tyke to see the show, dammit -- and that's where the trouble started.

Various miscreants up front descided to stand hold tyke at or above shoulder level, all the better for tyke to see the glory of Capt. Feathersword. This little manuver certainly helped junior, but didn't exactly help the 40 or so people in the 15 rows behind him. As Gatti Jr.'s joy of dancing and singing in the aisle was unaffected, I decided to let this breach of etiquette go by. Not so, however, for the Enraged Woman in front of me, which led to the following Kabuki Theater moments:

-- Enraged Woman in tense conversation with Collared, Perplexed, Underpaid MCI Center Event Staff. No satisfaction.

-- Enraged Woman marching up to Miscreant Woman, who was adjacent to Rather Large, Imposing Miscreant Man. Much gesticulating. In partial response to Enraged Woman, Miscreant Man casts a frosty, rather leaden glance back in our general direction to take in the affected area. I, together with others in affected area, Glance Elsewhere. In the end, no satisfaction. And, probably only because of the toddlers each combatant was carrying at the time, No Bloodshed. (Which, those in the affected area generally agreed, was a pity. Though it was an off night for the Capitals, the MCI Center could certainly have used a few more teeth on the floor).

-- Enraged Woman gathering entourage and staging a dramatic move, presumably to higher ground.

Which, as it happened, gave Gatti Jr. a better view, and more room to dance.

Wiggles Live, and the Rumble in the Jungle
 

Is either the miscreant or the enraged woman in this picture from today's Wash. Post?
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-d...814-2003Nov25L

Wiggles Live, and the Rumble in the Jungle
 

No. That slice of the crowd was sedated by Disney officials for aesthetics purposes.

Wiggles Live, and the Rumble in the Jungle
 

We took the baltspawn to see the Sesame Street show at the Baltimore Arena last month, to similar results. There, however, they erect a slight incline on the floor, so the people in row W can see over the people in row F. The view still wasn't great, but the kids mostly didn't seem to care. I was surprised how attentive they were to the show, however. And unlike you experience, it was the most polite crowd I've ever seen at a concert. In all, it was pretty tolerable, and I wouldn't mind going again, so long as it's not more than once or twice a year.

Wiggles Live, and the Rumble in the Jungle
 

Honestly, mine wasn't bad, either. I just enjoyed the show-within-a-show. Overall, the atmosphere was akin to an 8,000-person RomperRoom.

Wiggles Live, and the Rumble in the Jungle
 

What on earth are those two guys behind Capt. Feathersword DOING? Jesus, even San Francisco doesn't allow that onstage.

Wiggles Live, and the Rumble in the Jungle
 

I'm sorry, but I have a headache just from reading that line.

Wiggles Live, and the Rumble in the Jungle
 

Hmmn. Good question. I think they're having abitofa Nicky Nacky Nocky Noo, wouldn't you say? Or perhaps a Di Dicki Doo Dum Di Dum Do is more like it.

VietMom (grieving the recent marriage of the only cute and last available Wiggle....except for a certain sleeping Wiggle who I suspect is a "confirmed bachelor" NTTAWWT).


http://www.smh.com.au/ffxImage/urlpi...edding0505.jpg

Just remember, TexLex, it could have been much worse (Nebraska woman gives birth to 14-pound, 3-ounce girl).

They get bigger each subsequent kid....assuming we ever have time for Nicky Nacky Nocky Noo again, there's always next time. -T(ouch!)L

I am pleased to report that Kim Possible is aging quite gracefully, and that she remains a sweet, sweet piece of cartoon ass.

Also, that show has a lot of great B-list celebrity guest voices. I especially like that Felicity Huffman plays Doctor Director, and that nearly every episode has a guest voice from a primetime sitcom that tantalizes you with the "Where have I heard that voice before?" that used to be fun on Frazier and The Simpsons.

OK. Did not get the small people vaccinated for the flu. Called our doctor's office yesterday and they're out of vaccine. I gather I am far from the only one in this predicament. Other than feeling like a shitty parent, and quitting my job so that I can stay and and prevent the wee people from coming into contact with anyone contagious, does anyone have any suggestions?

edited to add:

Oh, and this headline from CNN makes me feel better:

Flu outbreak expected to reach epidemic level

1. Call around local hospitals and see if they are still giving it.

2. Mrs. Panda and I were vaccinated earlier this week, at the local Long's Drugs. Google "flu shot" or "flu vaccine" and your community name, and you might be able to find some places still giving it out.

3. Don't sweat it. The vaccine has to be produced months in advance, and figuring out what strain to use in producing it is largely guesswork. So the value of the flu vaccine each year is a crapshoot. This year, the amount of protection it provides is debatable, because the strain used to produce this year's vaccine is only modestly related to the strain in the current outbreak.

That CNN article says that FluMist is now covered by some insurers. Check the availability of this new vaccine format, for your tax deductions over age five.

MIL Rant
 

hanging out at the office with 8 month old chewing on deal toys and 4 yr old drawing on the white board while wife is at OB appointment for #3. watching emails pop up one by one on the deal i need to close monday, and stewing at the fact that MIL who lives 6 miles away can't be bothered to watch the kids for 2 fucking hours.

thanks, feel better now.

Flu Vaccine
 

Depends on the age of the kids. If they are 6 mo. - 2 years, then you should be able to find a vaccine from Kaiser, PAMF, etc. But those with supplies are rationing and won't give it to non-high risk, i.e. kids over the age of 2.

The nasal spray is more widely available (for a price) but the kids have to be at least 5.

If yours don't fit either group, then don't sweat it, but at least discuss antivirals; supportive therapy with the pediatrician if they get the flu.

In case Panda's being too oblique here, the FluMist contains live virus and has not been tested and approved for use on those under five and over 65. Thus, it's contraindicated for young kids anyway.

Don't sweat it, Ty. The huge majority of people who contract flu experience nothing more than a bad respiritory infection, and Panda's right that the vaccine is merely very good at protecting you from last year's flu. You're probably just as likely to die of West Nile.

Recently experienced the flu; youngest GreedSeed had it.

The big thing about this year's flu is really just that it is longer than usual - thus a much longer period when no food is eaten, few liquids stay down, fever stays high, etc. Over a week of high fever. This wears you down.

A lot of vigilence on the fever side, care to keep the liquids in when you can and regular visits to the doctor/ emergency room to make sure dehydradation or fever don't need treatment and you'll be OK. But do be vigilent on the fever -- it can spike pretty fast. Be ready to lose some sleep, and pace yourself from the beginning. If both Mom and Dad get no sleep for two nights, you'll be total wrecks by night three, and if one of the two of you get sick, the other one may need some help.

Temperatures - What is Too High?
 

and later...
I just wanted to thank you Bilmore for posting this a few months back. This just happened to a baltspawn today.

The only thing that kept me from totally losing my shit was knowing this from your post. I still lost my shit, but not until I got the temperature dropped (just took her outside, actually) and the baltspawn to the hospital.

Thank you.

(she's okay, and fast asleep)

Temperatures - What is Too High?
 

Oh... My.... God.... What a miserable experience that must have been. So glad to hear she's ok -- my heart was pounding faster and I was getting goosebumps just reading your post. {{Shudder.}} Really glad she's OK.

Temperatures - What is Too High?
 

As someone with a number of recent E/R trips for fever, none as bad as yours (105 degrees, while on tylenol), I really sympathize.

I think this is going to be a REALLY bad fever season.

Temperatures - What is Too High?
 

Cool. Glad it helped.

Non-parents have to do things like join health clubs, or jog, or swim, if they want to really get their hearts pounding.

We're lucky. We can get that effect without even moving.