Re: Immigration
 

Since they are working for him I am pretty sure that if he knows what they're doing and lets it continue, it's on him. But I don't know if it's a crime either. OTOH, you were the one saying that you didn't think a crime had been committed, so I leaped to the apparently rash assumption that you had a view about what would constitute a crime in this context. I personally wouldn't say someone hasn't done x if I don't know what x is, but I guess I'm just granular that way. I also assume that Mueller knows things that haven't become public yet, in part because my read is that he is running a tight ship and is not leaking, and that the leaks are largely coming from Trumpworld denizens trying to stab each other in the back. (For example, TPM has a post up suggesting that Bannon is a key source for the recent story about Hope Hicks. I don't doubt it. Javanka also know how to leak.)

Re: Immigration
 

Believing what you say isn't relevant anymore. Whatever Hannity repeats is all that matters.

Re: Immigration
 

Speaking of Hope, there is no dumber phrase than "the emails will never come out."

Kinda sums up how the whole group is just not remotely up to the job. They don't even know what they don't know and are fucking up.

Re: Immigration
 

Par for this particular course.

Re: Immigration
 

Because Little John told me, and he always tells the truth.

(Send this word casserole back. It’s not fully baked yet.)

Re: Immigration
 

If collusion were a crime, the operative section would have been on every pundit’s lips for the last year. Mueller’s findings may be secret. What is chargeable couldn’t be more public.

Re: Immigration
 

I will put it differently. Any desire you have for granularity runs only in one direction. When you come here and complain that people don't appreciate all the Jews who vote for Trump, and then post about the stupid things "the Left" believes, you sound like you are trolling and like you sympathize with the Right. If that's not the impression you're trying to create, you're doing it wrong.

Re: Immigration
 

Thank you for acknowledging that you are aggregating pundits' views.

Re: Immigration
 

I think espionage is a crime, but regardless of whether he was obstructing justice only to avoid embarrassment and not his own personal criminal behavior, I'd be surprised if obstruction is the only thing Mueller finds. There will certainly be dirty money dealings. The question is whether they will have happened after he was a candidate or even in office.

I'm prepared to learn from the GOP how money laundering before being sworn in isn't impeachable, though.

Re: Immigration
 

Your spin. I accuse both the Right and the Left of using a meat cleaver where a scalpel is warranted.

Yes, you are correct, however. In doing so, I am generalizing a bit myself.

I don't have serious sympathies about candidates or parties. I disliked certain things about Obama and liked others. I dislike most things about Trump, but can see a few decent things (most accidental).

It only seems I'm being overly-critical of the Left because almost everyone here shares the same Left-leaning sympathies. Hank and Less might be the only ones currently posting who hold some contrarian opinions on the current political situation.

This place is Left. That cannot be argued.

I'm not trolling. I sincerely believe we should assess all things in a manner where one credits the useful and decries the bad. My party versus yours, my identity versus yours... These aren't useful. Looking at things with a purely relativist and subjective eye, identifying with nothing but what you think are good policies, and resisting only what's bad -- this is a much more productive way to approach everything.

Re: Immigration
 

I think we'll find some massive illegal tax strategy and offshore accounts.

I'm not sure on laundering because, while contracting is one of the best laundering devices, recall -- Donald doesn't build anything anymore. He licenses his name to other people's construction. That hotel in DC he claims he "built" was just s rehab, I believe. That's about the most he does in terms of going vertical.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

The dad who rushed Nassar at sentencing was my best friend from college. We have drifted, and I had no idea this had impacted his girls.

Re: Immigration
 

I think I did just that last night.

One martini is all right. Two are too many, and three are not enough.

Re: Immigration
 

translation: "what the? A cue card from the Bob Hope special. How did that get in here?"

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I hope someone exercises some prosecutorial discretion and lets that event slide. It's not like Nassar couldn't stand a bit of tuning up.

I feel for him and his daughters.

Re: Immigration
 

Come on, dude. Your complaints about the left more often revolve around the level of wonky policy focus the left has - it's a complaint we're using a scalpel when a meat cleaver would do.

You did see, I trust, that Trump is taking administrative action to limit the enforcement of several provisions of Dodd Frank? Mostly focused on the anti-discrimination provisions and benching prosecutors chasing discriminatory lending practices. Your thoughts?

Re: Immigration
 

"Little John"? Seriously, dude, you need to stop hanging out at suburban PA cocktails parties with Trump supporters.

Re: Immigration
 

Can someone translate this translation?

Re: Immigration
 

It was a David Letterman joke he told after telling a corny old joke- something bob Hope might have told-

Re: Immigration
 

I really have to ask this. I'll try to do it without losing my shit, so bear with me (or don't, whatever).

Have you ever stopped for a second and thought that the people on this board think about each and every policy issue and have come to a conclusion about where they stand on the merits of the policy? Has it occurred to you that no one on this board supports Democratic policies that they disagree with just because they're Democratic in origin? Has it occurred to you that we actually disagree with policies Republicans consistently favor because we think they are incorrect--not because they are Republican ideas, but because they do not work?

Your tax example is a good one. You think there is some good in it. I disagree because it robs us of revenue we need to maintain safety nets, rebuild infrastructure, fund disaster relief, etc. The short term benefits are crumbs in the hands of middle class people and huge 4 tiered cakes for the rich. So, no. I don't agree that there are beneficial aspects to the tax bill. And I think there's going to have to be a Wisconsin-style reckoning at some point to deal with how we are currently underfunding the government.

Aside from that, I do not agree with the Republican/conservative philosophy of governing. That doesn't mean I am a blind follower and agree with everything Democrats want to do or have done. But if you can articulate a Republican policy position on anything that I agree with, I will be surprised. And that's because of the substance of those policies.

You are not some sage, above-it-all, disinterested, neutral party who has the ability to see how blind everyone else is. You're just a guy who agrees with Republicans on their approach to policy sometimes and agree with Democrats on others. You are no more thoughtful than anyone else on this board. In fact, your tendency to overlook the many very thoughtful posts which actually analyze Republican (and Democratic) positions as some automatic, unthinking, tribal response is small-minded and offensive.

TM

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Wow. That's crazy.

Not sure they needed 3 cops to subdue him. It looked more like an emotional gesture than anything else. It always seems like cops spend their lives waiting for moments like these so they can stick their knees in people's backs and tell them to stay down.

TM

Re: Immigration
 

That was written with a remarkable degree of restraint. You're still a jack-booted bully, but apparently one capable of exercising remarkable restraint.

Re: Immigration
 

https://memegenerator.net/img/images...is-stripes.jpg

TM

Re: Immigration
 

It's easy for me to identify an policy position I cross the aisle on, which is trade. I'm all for TPP, which passed with more Republican votes than Democratic, and I think the labor movement's focus on protectionism rather than internationalism (and cultivating unions abroad as part of trade deals especially) is completely screwed up. This is a regular debate in my family.

There have been other issues - Romneycare is a good example at a state level - where I've strongly backed bipartisan initiatives. When Bush was around I more than once expressed the view that he was someone to work with on immigration issues.

BUT , the tax bill is one of the most fucked-up, unprofessional, poorly thought out, half-assed, ideologically motivated pieces of legislation ever voted on, let alone passed, by Congress. Sure, there will be some stimulus resulting from dropping $1.5 trillion into the economy (which will come out of federal borrowing), but there were 20 ways to make that have a greater impact (just cutting a check for $5,000 per person and sending it to everyone in the country, man woman or child, would have had more stimulus by far) and that debt will be a long-term drag. Plus, the regionalism of it is deeply disturbing - the idea of trying to spur dead or dying industries with tax incentives while hamstringing expanding ones isn't Republican or Democratic, it's Moronic. A good part of the problem stems from the fact that no thought went into the bill from Congress - it's a cut and paste of K street proposals, not a bill crafted through a process of hearing and discussion. There was more discussion of it on this board than in Congress. No tax bill has ever been passed without a hearing process.

There are intelligent Republican tax bills that could have been proposed. If Sebby thinks that piece of shit has anything to say for itself, he's got ideological blinders WAYYYY worse than anyone else posting here.

Re: Immigration
 

Agree. And abandoning these types of trade agreements in favor of isolationism (because, let's be honest, people are just against them no matter what they say) just allows other countries to swoop in and fill the void we are leaving.

Ugh. Another superficial, knee-jerk, tribal response. I wish you put some thought into this issue.

TM

Re: Immigration
 

You are not hearing my point. Just yesterday, you objected to the idea that Jews generally vote for Democrats. You then posted about how "the Left" was reacting to the Mueller investigation. "This place is Left." So, obviously, the point of your post about Mueller was to make us (because we are Left) defend or reject the Mueller/Trump masturbation. That was trolling. You were not "sincerely assessing things in a manner where you credited the useful and decried the bad." You were saying things about "the Left" to provoke a reaction. I agree with you that there are people on the Left who say stupid things. But you weren't looking for agreement.

Re: Immigration
 

This place is technocratic center left. Heck, we don't even have a Berner much less any real leftists.

After all, lately you've been the strongest voice for big government here.

Re: Immigration
 

And IRS cannot add more that 7 or 8 rules to implement it, due to Trump executive branch wide restriction of new rules. drop 2 old to write 1 new.

Re: Immigration
 

I actually don't disagree with any of that. Those parts, and many more, of the bill are awful. I think I've written as much, here.

However, the doubling of the standard deduction does help certain people in the rental market. (Granted, Trump probably did this to assist Steve Schwarzman, who's gobbled up loads of rental properties through Blackstone. But nevertheless, the impact is positive.)

Also, expensing 100% of qualified property, while yes, a sugar rush of sorts, is a decent measure.

And the 20% pass through deduction and lowered corporate rate do encourage small business spending. But on balance, yes, they are deeply contrived loopholes for massive avoidance, and they deliver pennies to most and truckloads of gain to the .00001. But any gain is still a gain.

I completely agree that we'd do better to just give every poor to modest income American a check for $5,000.00. I said the same about the stimulus in 2009.

Re: Immigration
 

My point wasn't to make you accept or reject anything. My point, which I'll reiterate here, is that fixation on the Mueller thing is wasted energy and counterproductive.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I'm sick of hearing about how politics is tribal. Conservatives are a minority reacting to a mainstream they feel they are losing to, and they are tribal. The Left is not tribal, it's an incohesive collection of different interests. It has no single leader, no set of ties, no single goal, and no unity.

Re: Immigration
 

You might apply the analytical rigor you applied to Jewish support for Democrats when you talk about, for example, who is fixated on the Mueller thing, and how.

To your substance, I absolutely disagree. The "Mueller thing" has been the single biggest story of the last year. Trump's reaction to the investigation has affected all sorts of other issues, and has both driven him to the right and made him less effective. Whether paying attention to it is "wasted energy and counterproductive" depends, I guess, on what sorts of things you think would be a good use of energy and productive. I honestly have no idea what you're suggesting -- that we talk about something else here? That Mueller just call it a day and hang it up? That Adam Schiff agree to whatever Devin Nunes wants to do.

Re: Immigration
 

I wish I could stop laughing so I could cry.

Re: Immigration
 

What is the last federal political investigation that resulted in four indictments with two guilty pleas?

Without commenting at all on where it is going in the future, there's already more "there" there than anything I can think of in a long, long time.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Conservatives want it tribal, because they don't want to talk about their positions. They do not hold water.

That's why we don't have hearings any more.

Re: Immigration
 

Not since Trump. Whatever policy he floats appears to be loathsome until proven benign, or perhaps even decent. There was a similar thing with Bush. And Obama (with Slave, when he used to post here).

I don't agree with that. When ideas are discussed here, there's a pile-on effect and the arguments become quite blunt.

You realize doubling the standard deduction helps a lot of modest income people who are in the rental market.

And capping the SALT and mortgage interest deductions, although petulant and fucked up measures, do take from the affluent and redistribute to the middle class.

True. But what you and I see as crumbs are real dollars to the lower middle class.
Maybe now you do.

I don't follow that.

I just offered one. What would be your problem with doubling the standard deduction and capping mortgage interest deductions? (I'd geographically adjust the latter to stop punishing people in NY/CA/CT/NJ as the current cap does.)

I never said I was. But I am pretty much the only person who disagrees with anyone here on this stuff.

I happily accept that description.

If you scan back to the days of Bush, I'd surmise you'll see a 10 to 1 ratio of "Invective toward the GOP" vs. "Favorable comment on the GOP." I'm not making it up when I say this place leans left.

The conservative on this board would be...? There is none. I'm not even a conservative.

Have I lazily generalized and ignored some thoughtful positions? Sure. Guilty. But it's damn hard not to do so.

TM[/QUOTE]

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

I think that's backwards. They don't want to talk about their positions because they are tribal. This idea that you justify what you are going to do by appealing to some extrinsic notion of what makes good policy is mainstream and lefty. Conservatives decide with other conservatives behind closed doors and in their own media what they want to do, and then public talk is instrumentalist, to make it happen.

Re: Immigration
 

Any gain is a gain? The words of an ideologue. There is no gain when you put in place a tax policy that makes no sense, and that pass through piece makes zero sense. You distort the economy and drive it towards unproductivity, because yo tie money up in the games instead of productive enterprise. (Make no mistake, of course, I will play those games).

Rates, of course, can always be debated; this is the rate of a party that believes individuals should bear the cost of government more than businesses; I've always thought otherwise myself, and would err in favor of lower individual and higher corporate rates. Pity no one had that discussion.

Re: Mother, mother, mother - there's too many of you crying.
 

Good point. It may actually be some of each: there may be some happy to use the tribal to get the positions no one would support if explained, and others who go tribal and really have no positions but the tribalism.

Re: Immigration
 

[/QUOTE]

Oh, cut the bullshit.

Of course you are.