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-   -   General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107)

Tyrone Slothrop 11-19-2010 08:00 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 

A rat army so big, so mythical, that until now some scientists did not believe it was real.

Penske 2.0 11-20-2010 12:37 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 438797)
In the old days a few shots of Nyquil would do just fine.

Sure, that's good for one late night on the town, a several day jaunt requires more strategic planning.

Hank Chinaski 12-27-2010 11:36 PM

a modest proposal
 
over the years, my posts on this board have saved lives: both parent and child. the wiser posters recognize this and respect me, don't try to cross-contra-post my advice, etc. but a newer breed posts as if anyone who knows would want to hear from them after my advice has hit, I smh at them and sigh. but a lot of new parents and lurkers are here and don't know to ignore those who don't know (hi AG!).

maybe WOnk and I should be mods, and us two with notbob have "write" privileges, and the rest are "read only" until they can pass a test of some sort?

pm me if you think this is a good idea.

Penske 2.0 12-31-2010 04:00 PM

Re: a modest proposal
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 441528)
over the years, my posts on this board have saved lives: both parent and child. the wiser posters recognize this and respect me, don't try to cross-contra-post my advice, etc. but a newer breed posts as if anyone who knows would want to hear from them after my advice has hit, I smh at them and sigh. but a lot of new parents and lurkers are here and don't know to ignore those who don't know (hi AG!).

maybe WOnk and I should be mods, and us two with notbob have "write" privileges, and the rest are "read only" until they can pass a test of some sort?

pm me if you think this is a good idea.

Will do.

Atticus Grinch 12-31-2010 09:07 PM

Re: a modest proposal
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0 (Post 441887)
Will do.

Of all species of posts, the rare "I am going to send you a PM" post is probably the most perfectly narcissist. Kudos!

ltl/fb 01-01-2011 04:37 AM

Re: a modest proposal
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 441889)
Of all species of posts, the rare "I am going to send you a PM" post is probably the most perfectly narcissist. Kudos!

I think this was an implied "watch me not PMing you" post. Or Penske showing non-support. Rather like me.

Hank Chinaski 01-01-2011 11:43 AM

Re: a modest proposal
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ltl/fb (Post 441897)
I think this was an implied "watch me not PMing you" post. Or Penske showing non-support. Rather like me.

hate is not a family value, and this is a family board.

taxwonk 01-01-2011 03:29 PM

Re: a modest proposal
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 441898)
hate is not a family value, and this is a family board.

You obviously haven't met my family.

Penske 2.0 01-01-2011 03:51 PM

Re: a modest proposal
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ltl/fb (Post 441897)
I think this was an implied "watch me not PMing you" post. Or Penske showing non-support. Rather like me.

2. You get me, you really get me!!! :):):)

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 01-06-2011 01:43 PM

Uh-oh
 
We've been invited to a friends with our teenage daughters for a "salon", which is apparently all the rage. We all gather and talk about controversial subjects together.

This strikes me as a bad idea. If God had meant for such conversations to be held, she wouldn't have invented anonymous internet chat rooms.

Icky Thump 01-06-2011 01:53 PM

Re: Uh-oh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 442553)
We've been invited to a friends with our teenage daughters for a "salon", which is apparently all the rage. We all gather and talk about controversial subjects together.

This strikes me as a bad idea. If God had meant for such conversations to be held, she wouldn't have invented anonymous internet chat rooms.

ETA: Sounds ghastly and about as much fun as sniffing each other's farts.

Cletus Miller 01-06-2011 01:57 PM

Re: Uh-oh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 442554)
ETA: Sounds ghastly and about as much fun as sniffing each other's farts.

Doesn't that depend--for you at least--on how hot the moms are?

taxwonk 01-06-2011 03:20 PM

Re: Uh-oh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 442553)
We've been invited to a friends with our teenage daughters for a "salon", which is apparently all the rage. We all gather and talk about controversial subjects together.

This strikes me as a bad idea. If God had meant for such conversations to be held, she wouldn't have invented anonymous internet chat rooms.

Yet another bad idea from the 80s gets recycled. Hopefully this will die before it gets as big as it did 20 years ago, when Gerry Rubin of the Chicago 7 was organizing and hosting these things for Goldman Sachs.

Icky Thump 01-06-2011 06:18 PM

Re: Uh-oh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller (Post 442556)
Doesn't that depend--for you at least--on how hot the moms are?

Somehow I am thinking there is an inverse relationship between hotness and salonness.

Give me a big-titted trophy wife who wants to talk about cooters and beer.

Penske 2.0 01-06-2011 06:21 PM

Re: Uh-oh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 442553)
We've been invited to a friends with our teenage daughters for a "salon", which is apparently all the rage. We all gather and talk about controversial subjects together.

This strikes me as a bad idea. If God had meant for such conversations to be held, she wouldn't have invented anonymous internet chat rooms.

This sounds like every social situation I have ever been a part of.

Penske 2.0 01-06-2011 06:22 PM

Re: Uh-oh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 442554)
ETA: Sounds ghastly and about as much fun as sniffing each other's farts.

You realise "sex" counts as a controversial subject?

Penske 2.0 01-06-2011 06:40 PM

Re: Uh-oh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 442692)
a big-titted trophy wife who wants to talk about cooters and beer.

Every social situation I have been in in the last 20 years includes this, except when the talk is about cooters and wine. or even better, cooters and tequila.:D:D

Cletus Miller 01-06-2011 06:45 PM

Re: Uh-oh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 442692)
Somehow I am thinking there is an inverse relationship between hotness and salonness.

Give me a big-titted trophy wife who wants to talk about cooters and beer.

I was suggesting you were giving fart smelling a bad rap.

Penske 2.0 01-06-2011 07:31 PM

Re: Uh-oh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cletus Miller (Post 442713)
I was suggesting you were giving fart smelling a bad rap.

How about fart lighting? that makes for a fun party, no?

Hank Chinaski 01-07-2011 08:38 AM

Re: Uh-oh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 442553)
We've been invited to a friends with our teenage daughters for a "salon", which is apparently all the rage. We all gather and talk about controversial subjects together.

This strikes me as a bad idea. If God had meant for such conversations to be held, she wouldn't have invented anonymous internet chat rooms.

don't mention the nick-name you got here when you first gave your "opinions" and see if anyone comes up with it organically there.

Penske 2.0 01-07-2011 02:40 PM

Re: Uh-oh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 442768)
don't mention the nick-name you got here when you first gave your "opinions" and see if anyone comes up with it organically there.

[confidential to Hank] I forget what his nickname is, hmu on the pm [/confidential to Hank]

Hank Chinaski 01-07-2011 02:47 PM

Re: Uh-oh
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Penske 2.0 (Post 442876)
[confidential to Hank] I forget what his nickname is, hmu on the pm [/confidential to Hank]

Narcissism may not be a mental illness anymore but I bet you could get this fecta- OCD awarded a page in the desk reference

Tyrone Slothrop 12-01-2011 12:29 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 

Parental nightmare!!!!!

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 12-01-2011 12:32 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 462991)

Great granularity on that analysis.

Atticus Grinch 02-17-2012 06:52 PM

Re: Advice?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 372169)
One of my nieces is a high school sophomore. She's a little high-strung -- trust me, she comes by it honestly -- but otherwise seems like a totally normal kid. She's witty, a fast talker (it seems they all are at that age), and empathetic. Her parents are both pretty successful in their fields and can both be a little retentive, but their home life is comfortable and at the high-end range of functioning. She lives on the East Coast so we don't see her all the time, but when she talks about problems it seems like normal teen girl trauma -- school, bitchy friends, and more school.

So here's the thing -- we just found out that they're thinking of putting her on Xanax. Her mom says that some of her friends are already on it, and it has improved their outlook a great deal.

I'm outraged. Of course, I don't have complete insight into her day-to-day, but with the information that I know and putting it into the preexisting narrative of What I Think Is Wrong With America, this seems completely wrong to me.

I appreciate that there are real things called mood disorders and that some people need medication in order to do chemically what their brain cannot do organically. I get that. Depression and anxiety are real things.

But so is being a teenager. Let's assume that there's something going on here where she's struggling more than I've been led to know. Still, I'm gobsmacked that someone would even consider taking a teenager and attempting to treat symptoms without knowing whether she has a permanent condition that requires medication. Call me silly, but I thought these drugs were supposed to be prescribed when other approaches to a particular pathology had failed. I've go no objections at all to adults taking these drugs, because I trust that they would only do so as adults, figuring out that they needed to get past whatever was blocking their uptake of life's happiness. But a fucking teenager? If my kids are frustrated, anxious and unhappy at age 15 that's how I'll know they're growing up correctly. I didn't realize that adolescence, even in its extreme pathological form, was a condition requiring medication.

Am I being too, pardon the phrase, prescriptive here? Am I old-fashioned to think that pharmaceutical mood alteration is pretty serious stuff, and that even if she experiences a positive outcome there's still moral risk here?

So, 3+ years later, I thought I would give an update on this one.

The past three years have been a waking nightmare for the family. Niece was on Xanax, then something else, then nothing, then Xanax again -- if she was really taking it, we're not sure. She stopped going to high school in the early part of sophomore year -- said the whole school experience made her too anxious to function. Section 504 meetings were held; SST meetings were held; psychologists were consulted, the whole shootin' match. And still Niece would not go to school. What she preferred to do was stay in her room and IM with friends and/or strangers all day and night, subsisting on microwaved cheese pizza and a burning hatred for her parents, particularly her mother (the parent of the two with relatively more backbone on discipline efforts). Items were thrown in rage/disgust. We learned that it is possible to throw a Blackberry at a car windshield with sufficient force to crack the windshield but leave the Blackberry unscathed. We learned about acute psychiatric hospitalizations, and we learned about Borderline Personality Disorder, particularly the hard fact that it is probably not an organic mental illness, but rather often the product of stressful maturational events, or the consequence of too-porous boundaries that occur when parents do not consistently mirror a child's emotions back to them, or at least acknowledge they have recognized the child's emotion as genuine. We learned that civil commitment in her state of residence is a tricky thing. We learned that affluent areas often have a hidden subculture of aimless young twentysomethings and that it is possible for a 16 year old girl to find and join them, if she is precocious. We learned the differences among suicidal ideation, suicidal gesture, and suicide attempt, and we saw at least two of the above -- more, depending on how seriously you regard cutting. We heard a beloved therapist friend advise us that we shouldn't be too hopeful or get too close, because people with BPD have a terrible prognosis and when they self-destruct -- literally -- their extreme narcissism often gives them an entitlement to influct special damage on others as they go. We learned the phrase "emotional lability." We learned that it is possible, indeed even easy, for a manipulative teen to break her parents down into a formless, hopeless jelly, and that if a fortysomething woman with a mentally ill daughter says it will never get better and that we should all stop saying it will, there are zero good arguments to the contrary. We learned that you can drop out of high school and get your GED with relative little effort, if you're smart. We learned that many of the opportunities for adding direction to a young person's life are made difficult if you have some involuntary hospitalizations in your history.

And we learned that even though the idea of her moving out into an apartment at 18 is terrifying, it's more scary to think she won't. And it got a little better. A very little better. At least if she's having a dark moment, she's not dragging her mother into it, directly at least. She keeps changing jobs, but keeps getting them, at least. She talks about college, but carefully makes sure that her classes won't be anxiety-producing, which bodes ill for anything resembling adulthood.

I don't know that I can say it started with a bad decision, or any decision at all for that matter. All I know is that some people I love have been through hell, and that it was at the hands of another person I love. Part of my hope that it will continue to improve is selfish. I hope someday I can look at my Niece and not be furious with her for taking adolescence to such a horrifying extreme, at the expense of her entire family, including her younger sister.

Well, that felt good to revisit a time when I hoped it might turn out okay. Please take special care not to refer to any of this on Facebook, or I will delete your ass with extreme prejudice.

Fugee 02-20-2012 09:38 AM

Re: Advice?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 465738)
AG's niece update

I'm sorry to read this -- it sucks.

On the other hand, reading it makes me feel somewhat better about the latest bad decision made by my stupid nephew and his even more stupid (and very young) wife. Although they live paycheck to paycheck and are always complaining about how they have no money and although his wife is only 20 years old, she has wanted a baby almost since they married 2 years ago and her equally stupid parents have been pressuring her to give them a grandchild because her brother won't let them see his child.

A baby is the last thing they need but a baby is what they will have come September.

Icky Thump 02-20-2012 09:42 PM

Re: Advice?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugee (Post 465761)
I'm sorry to read this -- it sucks.

On the other hand, reading it makes me feel somewhat better about the latest bad decision made by my stupid nephew and his even more stupid (and very young) wife. Although they live paycheck to paycheck and are always complaining about how they have no money and although his wife is only 20 years old, she has wanted a baby almost since they married 2 years ago and her equally stupid parents have been pressuring her to give them a grandchild because her brother won't let them see his child.

A baby is the last thing they need but a baby is what they will have come September.

If Rick Santorum is president they will be designated breeders for the coop.

Fugee 02-21-2012 12:42 AM

Re: Advice?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 465781)
If Rick Santorum is president they will be designated breeders for the coop.

Even Santorum wouldn't want them to reproduce.

Icky Thump 02-21-2012 06:20 AM

Re: Advice?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugee (Post 465783)
Even Santorum wouldn't want them to reproduce.

You are, apparently, very unaware how life is in the patch. Paycheck to paycheck (as opposed to hunting rabbits and mice) is not a deterrent to having children.

Who do you think is voting for this guy?

Atticus Grinch 03-02-2012 05:03 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Facing some hard facts about bedtime books.

Tyrone Slothrop 08-21-2012 08:06 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Am thinking about getting L'il Ty a mobile phone, but I am a long, long way from giving him unfettered access to his own iPhone. Does anyone know anything about the different mobile phones made for kids with limited features/parental controls/parental features?

Flinty_McFlint 08-22-2012 03:40 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 471794)
Am thinking about getting L'il Ty a mobile phone, but I am a long, long way from giving him unfettered access to his own iPhone. Does anyone know anything about the different mobile phones made for kids with limited features/parental controls/parental features?

I'd say get one of those burner phones/prepaid phones that don't have any features except voice.

taxwonk 08-22-2012 06:27 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 471794)
Am thinking about getting L'il Ty a mobile phone, but I am a long, long way from giving him unfettered access to his own iPhone. Does anyone know anything about the different mobile phones made for kids with limited features/parental controls/parental features?

Best Buy. They will have options from all the major carriers. I forget how old Li'l Ty is, but the Wonk Monster got a phone at 10 that had our number pre-programmed with a special call button, and it allowed parents to pre-select and enter a limited number of contacts from whom calls could be received and to whom calls could be made. If he's older than that, I would agree with the basic burner (or monthly, no-contract) model.

Hank Chinaski 08-22-2012 07:12 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 471794)
Am thinking about getting L'il Ty a mobile phone, but I am a long, long way from giving him unfettered access to his own iPhone. Does anyone know anything about the different mobile phones made for kids with limited features/parental controls/parental features?

I don't know what you and the kid do for a living but I'm rewatching The Wire and modern drug crews have realized that cells are too easy to tap.

Hank Chinaski 08-22-2012 07:13 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flinty_McFlint (Post 471828)
I'd say get one of those burner phones/prepaid phones that don't have any features except voice.

translation: I represent phone companies.

Flinty_McFlint 08-22-2012 07:23 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 471855)
translation: I represent phone companies.

Or I work with the FBI and DEA and such.

Hank Chinaski 08-22-2012 07:45 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flinty_McFlint (Post 471857)
Or I work with the FBI and DEA and such.

you're a witness relocation I-tie? Damn.

Atticus Grinch 08-22-2012 10:04 PM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 471794)
Am thinking about getting L'il Ty a mobile phone, but I am a long, long way from giving him unfettered access to his own iPhone. Does anyone know anything about the different mobile phones made for kids with limited features/parental controls/parental features?

Let us know what you settle on. "I'll never get my kid a cell phone" is rapidly bending to some practicalities of middle school.

bold_n_brazen 08-23-2012 08:22 AM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 471865)
Let us know what you settle on. "I'll never get my kid a cell phone" is rapidly bending to some practicalities of middle school.

The Brazenette wants an iPhone. I am thinking about caving for her birthday.

Virgin America has an unlimited voice and data plan for less than $50 a month. The phone is spendy though.

Tyrone Slothrop 08-30-2012 02:44 AM

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 471865)
Let us know what you settle on. "I'll never get my kid a cell phone" is rapidly bending to some practicalities of middle school.

Indeed.


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