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		| Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
 Then you confused me by pointing to the creation of Bulgaria as support, since that was longer ago.
 
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 I was under the impression that Bulgaria was created after WWI when Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire fell apart (like so many other countries).  At that time a whole bunch of ethnolinguistic states were created.  
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		| Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
 
 I picked the country I knew a little about.  (Ever play Diplomacy?  Bulgaria has an Aegean coast in that game.)  You seem to have decided I was cherry-picking.  Not so.  BTW, Bulgaria's population appears to be 84% Bulgarian.
 
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 84% v. 90%.  Either way you have to admit that the borders were drawn and changed with the intention of putting Bulgarians in and keeping non Bulgarians out.  
 
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		| Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
 I agree with much of this.  But perhaps we're interested in different parts of this.  It's one thing to say that borders currently reflect linguistic and ethnic differences to a great degree.  It's another to say that borders are going to keep changing to align with linguistic and ethnic differences.
 
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 Yes.  It is another thinig to say that.  But I believe the evidence is overwhelming.  The most recent border changes all made the ethnolinguistic lines closer to politcal lines.  Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Czechoslovakia.  Has there been a border change in the last twenty years that wasn't about making the political borders closer to ethnolinguistic borders?  And any border changes that are possible in the future are all about making ethnolinquistic borders closer to poliltical borders.  Belgium, Catalan, Scotland, Ireland recombining, the Basques.  Is there a possible border change in Europe you can see coming in the future that won't be about making political boundaries reflect ethnolinguistic lines?   
 
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		| Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop   Borders moved a lot in Europe up through the end of World War II, and then haven't changed much since then, with a few exceptions.   Bulgaria's borders kept changing in its first 60 years of independence, and then have stayed pretty much the same since then.
 
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 All the border changes and movements of people after WWII were about making ethnolinguistic borders reflect politial lines.  The German explusion of Pomerania, Silesia, Konigsburg, Danzig and the Sudentenland.  The movement of polish nationals from Easter Poland (now Western Ukrain) to the ethnically cleansed parts of Pomrania and Silesia (now western Poland).  Etc. ETc.  After WWII the only border movement has also been for ethnolinguistic lines.  Can you name a border change since WWII that wasn't about that?  
 
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		| Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop Now you could suggest that the shift to industrialization somehow caused borders to change a lot for a while.  Or you could say that borders change all the time, but that the Cold War put a lid on things.  Those two theories point in different directions for the future.  And I'm sure there are other theories -- I just made those up now.  My point: Distinguishing the exceptions from the trends is how you sort out between the theories.
 
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 The Soviet tried to fight this ethnolinguistic trend but they lost.  The Soviet Union, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia were both attempts to ignore nationalism, and they all failed.   
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		| Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
 Can you link to the maps?
 
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 The European ethnic map is in a few historical atlases I have.  I have seen the same map in about five pubications.  But my scanner is down.  The ethnolinguistic map of the Middle East I have (that is the best) I got from the internet but the link isn't valid anymore.  I will look for them both this weekend.  
 
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		| Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
 You're ignoring the EU, but in Europe you are probably correct.  OTOH, I'm not sure about this outside Europe.  The conversation started with a discussion of Afghanistan and Central Asia, and I'm still not understanding how you see this strong force translating into specific events that will change borders in those places.
 
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 Like I said the biggest problem with my theory is not that Europe has been moving towards ethnolinguistic uniformaty or that it continues to do so (the belive the facts overwhelming support that conclusion), it is whether the middle east and central asia will follow Europes model.  
GGG acknowledged the European trend but then made some very good points of why the Middle East and Central Asia are different from Europe.  Cletus also acknowledged the European trend but also made some good point on why Europe was different from Middle East and Central Asia.    For some reason you focused on what I thought was the undisputable part of my thesis (Europe) and did not focus on the weak part (what happend and is happening in Europe will also happen in the Middle East and Central Asia).
But the big issue is what forces caused Europe to do what it did (and continues to do) and are these same forces present in the Middle East and Central Asia?