Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 493597)

I don't know if I agree with your example. I'll admit that I've never watched Platoon from start to finish, but it's because of the rape scene. I was like 16 or 17 when I saw that and I had to turn it off. Maybe the tone changes, but I didn't get any sense of heroism from what I saw.

TM

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 493615)

I was thinking about this the other day when the discussion first came up. My brother has more kills than my husband does. Like a gagillion Texans, my brother grew up hunting. Mainly ducks, geese and dove, but he is an excellent shot and had no problem whatsoever shooting and killing birds in the sky or snakes in the water or sick looking rodents that could be rabid. My husband grew up in urban and suburban Ohio, and he didn't start shooting until he joined the Marines during the first Gulf War. Aside from spiders and the mice he fed to his snakes, I don't think he's ever killed anything on purpose. But he was good at shooting. Though he didn't go to sniper school, had his unit gone anywhere, he would have been the guy they sent high to cover everyone if there were no other snipers around. He never had to.

I'm pretty sure that my husband wouldn't have had a problem at the time shooting and killing people to protect his unit. Not god, not country, not to defend democracy or something abstract, but the guys he went in with. He was very well trained / indoctrinated to work as a team with the people around him, and he was good at his job, which included being an excellent shot. Had he stayed in longer, I have no doubt that eventually he would have shot and killed someone and maybe even a lot of someones. And I think he would be relatively ok with it.

I think my brother would have had a major problem with it, though I guess if he had to, he could/would. He'd be a lot more messed up about it later, though, at least outwardly.

At any rate, I think my husband was a 19 year old who had no interest whatsoever in college and saw the Marines as something he could do instead. He'll tell you now that he was a horrible Marine, though I've never gotten the impression that he regrets it, and he's still immensely proud of getting through Parris Island and then being Force Recon. For someone who hates being told what to do or how to dress and is insanely stubborn, I sometimes can't believe he did it. I suspect a lot of adolescent anger, resentment, and desire to prove people wrong did a lot to drive him. I think also the adrenaline rush had a lot to do with it. He loved jumping out of planes and repelling and using zip lines and stuff like that. Plus he loved playing with the toys. I can't even count the number of times we've watched an action adventure movie where he's done whatever the people on screen are doing.

Now, he absolutely HATES the fetishization of the military, and he squirms whenever he hears the words "thank you for your service." I mentioned recently how I thought it'd be funny if he and my brother went to a gun range to compare efficiency, and he said it sounded like something that would support the NRA so he had no interest. But I still think he would not hesitate to kill someone if we were in legitimate danger.

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 493615)

I mentioned recently how I thought it'd be funny if he and my brother went to a gun range to compare efficiency, and he said it sounded like something that would support the NRA so he had no interest. But I still think he would not hesitate to kill someone if we were in legitimate danger.

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 493624)

As a person who’s gone a lifetime of assiduously avoiding supporting the NRA, my present understanding is that one can pay a daily or hourly fee at a public or private range without resulting in a net benefit to Wayne LaPierre, BUT many ranges and sportsman’s rod and gun clubs require NRA membership in order to become a member — something about NRA death and dismemberment insurance, no doubt. So he can’t become a member. But paying $10, particularly at a publicly owned range, isn’t going to empower the NRA. I welcome corrections from anyone who sees it differently.

Unless he means he doesn’t want to support the NRA by enriching, even slightly, a person or business who is then more capable of donating. Because if that’s the standard, you’re pretty much going to have to displace yourself from Texas again, or “go freegan.”

What’s a person with a big fucking family ranch doing at a gun range, anyway? I thought people in Texas just fire their guns out the bathroom window to salute the dawn.

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 493622)

Yeah, I thought Platoon was a weird example there, because it had definite American soldier bad guys.

But it's also pretty literal in its Sgt. Elias-as-Jesus imagery, albeit right a the end:
https://sanjosebarstool.files.wordpr...if?w=500&h=281

Weird, I don't specifically recall the rape scene though.

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 493622)

Yeah, I thought Platoon was a weird example there, because it had definite American soldier bad guys.

But it's also pretty literal in its Sgt. Elias-as-Jesus imagery, albeit right a the end:
https://sanjosebarstool.files.wordpr...if?w=500&h=281

Weird, I don't specifically recall the rape scene though.

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 493628)

It was in the village where they find VC supplies - it happens after Tom Beringer kills the mayor's wife. Not as big a plot point as the rape in "Casualties of War," but it was part of why Charlie Sheen liked Wilem Dafoe better than Berenger.

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 493631)

Maybe that's the one I was thinking of. Do they take the girl into a hut with Michael J. Fox doing his Michael J. Fox thing outside?

I don't think I watched Platoon either.

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 493615)

I was thinking about this the other day when the discussion first came up. My brother has more kills than my husband does. Like a gagillion Texans, my brother grew up hunting. Mainly ducks, geese and dove, but he is an excellent shot and had no problem whatsoever shooting and killing birds in the sky or snakes in the water or sick looking rodents that could be rabid. My husband grew up in urban and suburban Ohio, and he didn't start shooting until he joined the Marines during the first Gulf War. Aside from spiders and the mice he fed to his snakes, I don't think he's ever killed anything on purpose. But he was good at shooting. Though he didn't go to sniper school, had his unit gone anywhere, he would have been the guy they sent high to cover everyone if there were no other snipers around. He never had to.

I'm pretty sure that my husband wouldn't have had a problem at the time shooting and killing people to protect his unit. Not god, not country, not to defend democracy or something abstract, but the guys he went in with. He was very well trained / indoctrinated to work as a team with the people around him, and he was good at his job, which included being an excellent shot. Had he stayed in longer, I have no doubt that eventually he would have shot and killed someone and maybe even a lot of someones. And I think he would be relatively ok with it.

I think my brother would have had a major problem with it, though I guess if he had to, he could/would. He'd be a lot more messed up about it later, though, at least outwardly.

At any rate, I think my husband was a 19 year old who had no interest whatsoever in college and saw the Marines as something he could do instead. He'll tell you now that he was a horrible Marine, though I've never gotten the impression that he regrets it, and he's still immensely proud of getting through Parris Island and then being Force Recon. For someone who hates being told what to do or how to dress and is insanely stubborn, I sometimes can't believe he did it. I suspect a lot of adolescent anger, resentment, and desire to prove people wrong did a lot to drive him. I think also the adrenaline rush had a lot to do with it. He loved jumping out of planes and repelling and using zip lines and stuff like that. Plus he loved playing with the toys. I can't even count the number of times we've watched an action adventure movie where he's done whatever the people on screen are doing.

Now, he absolutely HATES the fetishization of the military, and he squirms whenever he hears the words "thank you for your service." I mentioned recently how I thought it'd be funny if he and my brother went to a gun range to compare efficiency, and he said it sounded like something that would support the NRA so he had no interest. But I still think he would not hesitate to kill someone if we were in legitimate danger.

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 493631)

Maybe that's the one I was thinking of. Do they take the girl into a hut with Michael J. Fox doing his Michael J. Fox thing outside?

I don't think I watched Platoon either.

TM

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 493635)

HUGE 2 on that "Thank you for your service" bullshit. It's hard to verbalize just why it is so annoying, but I cringe too.

We've seen all kinds of reasons in our family for joining the military. I think my foster-nephew did it to emulate his foster father. I've had a couple relatives do ROTC, focusing more on the college payments than the after college commitments - at least one of them very explicitly thinking, pre 9/11, that he had little or no chance of deployment and it was a good gig for a couple years. We've had people in the military as doctors, priests, and social workers - all unlikely to get shot at or shoot anyone. At least one in-law was doing it for immigration and naturalization reasons. Two family members have done special forces training - my father, who dropped out of it, and a brother-in-law who started in the SEAL program but was transferred out of it into a leadership track and ended up commanding a nuclear sub (SEALs never end up running things, they're too crazy). Both signed up for it more for the prestige, they were looking for the most elite military role and the fastest advancing they could.

There's a sizable part of the country where the military is just an alternate stepping stone to success, like college is or training for a union trade once was. I don't think every enlistee really thinks that hard about the killing part.

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 493642)

SEALs I know are probably outliers. I met two when we were at Oxford. One of them is now a lawyer specializing in environmental projects and the other's title on linkedin says "Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council". A third SEAL is a Burning Man buddy, and everyone knows not to wake him up suddenly.

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 493628)

It was in the village where they find VC supplies - it happens after Tom Beringer kills the mayor's wife. Not as big a plot point as the rape in "Casualties of War," but it was part of why Charlie Sheen liked Wilem Dafoe better than Berenger.

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch (Post 493624)

As a person who’s gone a lifetime of assiduously avoiding supporting the NRA, my present understanding is that one can pay a daily or hourly fee at a public or private range without resulting in a net benefit to Wayne LaPierre, BUT many ranges and sportsman’s rod and gun clubs require NRA membership in order to become a member — something about NRA death and dismemberment insurance, no doubt. So he can’t become a member. But paying $10, particularly at a publicly owned range, isn’t going to empower the NRA. I welcome corrections from anyone who sees it differently.

Unless he means he doesn’t want to support the NRA by enriching, even slightly, a person or business who is then more capable of donating. Because if that’s the standard, you’re pretty much going to have to displace yourself from Texas again, or “go freegan.”

What’s a person with a big fucking family ranch doing at a gun range, anyway? I thought people in Texas just fire their guns out the bathroom window to salute the dawn.

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 493648)

Oh, yeah right.

Funny story (not really), in high school a buddy had rented the movie you mentioned and the tape was sitting on top of the TV. His mother came in and looked at the box and said, "what's Casual Ties of War."

He's dead now.