Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

If those cops are saying the racist stuff that other relative said, I'd say they're just garden variety bigots. They clearly have no economic anxiety, so they're just voting their racist tendencies. They are incurable. Forget about them.

The 800 lb gorilla in Trumpism is not the bigot, or the economically insecure person. I think, and I could be wrong, it's the smart, thoughtful person who rationally calculates that Trump is the better choice for him.

In the past this would be called a pocketbook voter. But I think it's more complex than that. I think there are a lot of smart, rational voters who look at politics, think its a dysfunctional mess and simply vote for their own interests. Rather than examine these people as parts of the population, it might be better to examine them as individual actors who no longer feel connected to the rest of the population. They are people who see our political system as a joke and thus "draw the circle smaller." They think shorter term and focus not on what's better for their community, or their state, or their party, or the country, but instead focus on simply taking care of their families.

When there's upheaval like 2000 crash, followed by the 2008 crisis, followed by inequality, volatility, and so much insecurity all over the world, people tend to hunker down. They refocus on themselves. They also don't mind authoritarians so much. They'll give anything for stability.

Those, I think, are the huge numbers of people who don't show up in Trump's polling numbers.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

Yup. And if there is a way to say this even more strongly, I'd endorse it.

I have an old friend who regularly shows up as a Democratic voice on Fox, and for a while I regularly tuned in when he was on, but I can't even bear that now and mostly just see the "worst of" clips that show up daily on Twitter.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

I don't watch Fox. But unfortunately, I am quite familiar with the people on it. How can one not be? (And Taibbi's book discusses them at length.)

My sole cable news guilty pleasure is Morning Joe. Occasionally, I listen while driving.

BTW, Howard had Hillary on this morning. Good interview. Hit a lot of subjects. Pretty open - considerable candor.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

I'll have to take you at your word there, because the Bell Curve seems best used as a doorstop.

He is amazingly polite in interviews. It is disarming.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

Joy Reid is the one most worth watching.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

It is the role in Republican politics that used to be covered by Bill Buckley. The polite bigot who lets suburban Republicans feel superior because he criticizes people for their skin and their grammar.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

Are "journalist" and "advocate" synonyms in your Thesaurus?

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

I see no reason not to insult people over grammar or vocabulary. We've all done that. Recall I stupidly reversed objective and subjective a while back? I certainly deserved what I received for that.

You run into a lot of dumb people in my state. I'm kind of tired of hearing them speak as though they've not finished seventh grade. Younger people are the worst with it. Texting's robbed them of all capacity to formulate and express complex thought. And most of these people live in the suburbs.

Re: Institutional, Top-Down, Thinly-Veiled Racism
 

You wonder what he means when he says that communities might find themselves without the police protection that they need. It has the apocalyptic whiff of the NRA types who arm themselves to prepare for the coming anarchy.

I don't mind a political figure suggesting that the police deserve respect, so long as they also saying that the police need to earn that respect. Obviously, that's not what Barr is up to.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

One of the many reasons I don't engage substantively with you is that you are dishonest, and one of the more obvious and tedious ways that you are dishonest is that you constantly change the argument of the person you are arguing with, and then provide a counter-argument to your made up version of what you pretend to be arguing about. You have gone so far in the past as to "quote" (as in, with actual quotation marks) something that I never said, and then provide a strenuous argument against the "quoted" argument that I never made. This is why your debates with Ty consist primarily of: "When you said x, you're a fool." "But I never said x." "Well here is something you said that is kind of x-ish." "No it's not, we were talking about something completely different." Etc., etc., etc., etc. Arguing with liars is pointless.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

I do wish you'd finish the argument and fill in those etc.s, because you have the basics down cold. Or are those etc.s really more like a repeat sign in music, where we just go back and repeat the same song and dance all over again?

Re: Institutional, Top-Down, Thinly-Veiled Racism
 

I think what Barr is saying is that major cities need to reduce the numbers on their police forces, which strikes me as a fine idea.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

The etc.'s are really more like variations on the same theme. Sometimes Sebastian is countering an argument you never made. Sometimes you counter something he said and he says that he never actually said it, even though you can see that he did say it, just the day before. Sometimes he argues that, even if he did say it, words don't mean what you think they mean. Etc., etc., etc.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

If Sebby hired me as his lawyer I'd shoot your arguments down. I might have to blur the truth, make half truths, hell, lie to destroy you: come to think I think the ethics rules would compel me to do so.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

So, Hank, if you didn’t go to Harvard and a Yale law at the same time, would you give money to your law school that employs a professor who testifies before Congress that impeachment without a crime is unprecedented even in the face of explicit evidence of the crime of soliciting a thing of value from a foreign person.

If you had instead gone to GW, do would you be nauseous about Prof Turley’s willingness to lie?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

My suspicion is that all of us went to schools that graduated some mix of asshats and angels, and blaming the schools for this makes no sense.

Am I right that we all went to schools other than Dartmouth?

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

I told you I didn't want you to engage me. Why do you think I'd care why you don't? I only responded as I did here because I was able to do it in a pithy way.

Do as you say, and do it more comprehensively.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

I got a letter basically saying, "Hey, so we accepted a shit ton of money from Epstein way back when it was cool to do so, and while we now feel just terrible about that, we already spent it all! Except some petty change we just found, which we donated to a charity for women. #winning!"

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

Ah, yes, the left-wing analogue to Fox: the network with a morning show hosted by a former Republican Congressman who voted to impeach Bill Clinton. So left!

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

Hahaha!

You can't not engage with me because I not engaged with you FIRST!!!

So there.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...HSQDAjb0DCUf&s

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

Not for nothing -- you routinely tell me that I'm an elitist who looks down at average Americans for not sharing my views, but I don't say stuff like this.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Is it really lying, or is it just a willingness to adopt the views necessary to keep the TV cameras on him? If you don't like what he believes, he can believe something else.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Asshats are one thing. Apologists for self-proclaimed, wanna be Hitlers are another.

Add(from Dachau)er

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

He said it would be the first ever impeachment based on a non-crime high crime and misdemeanor. That’s a lie. Asking a foreigner for aid is s crime.

Not quite death by a thousand cuts
 

The State Bar of California runs a "Sponsored Accidental Death Plan," and just sent me a "Accidental Death and Dismemberment Enrollment Form." Pass, thanks.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

Oh come on... Let's not play obtuse here. If we started flagging people for abusing the weaknesses of this medium that allow people to preserve arguments and avoid being cornered as one would be IRL, everyone here would have numerous red cards.

Just a month ago, Less was battling with someone over their refusal to every concede when they're wrong. (I think it was GGG, but maybe it was Ty.) And as to whining about my restating other people's arguments, Ty's been doing that to me forever. If you look back through the past months, you'll see him repeatedly trying to tell me what I believe and accusing me of hiding what I actually think.

Does that make him dishonest? Hell no. He's probing. He's even gotten me to think a few times about what I am actually thinking.

It's profoundly strange to take issue with someone for pragmatically assessing politicians who lie effectively. If you can't separate recognition of a skill from the endorsement of its practice, your brain isn't working. George Goebbels and Josef Stalin were brilliant liars. Geniuses. If I say that, have I said that I support the idea of lying? No. I've said these guys are very good at doing something bad.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

I don't think you're elitist. I think you think you know better than most. I share this trait. I don't know what to call it.

You'd say stuff like that if you ran into some of the people we see in this flyoverland.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

Donna Brazile is on Fox.

You missed my point. The point was that is the only cable news I hear.

And MJ blasts Trump all show, every day. They probably do it more than Maddow.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

If I had gone to GW? Hmmm, I really couldn't say. That's like asking me if my dick were only 8 inches long would it still hamper my stride when it got hard.


Conf to adder- I think he was there when I was there. How is that possible?

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

It was GGG, and I agreed with Less.

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

"Professor of English and Neuroscience"

She's not messing around.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

I was just kissing up to Flower. I’ve read none of this nonsense, would not be able to comment substantively.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

You're lying about your views on lying, which is kind of meta. You previously said:

Because if you're going to ban lies, you're going to ban a whole lot of what we call 'advocacy."

But I actually know of an advocacy-based profession that does ban lying.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

My bad for associating you with it.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

No. You’ve Aspergers.

Advocacy does involve lying. Politicians lie all day long. Lobbyists lie all day. PR people do it openly.

And lawyers do it, and you know it. Lawyers spend millions of dollars in client money every year trying to figure out how to present things disingenuously, or in a false light, or obscure things, or hide things to present the “truth” they want someone to believe without technically violating the prohibition on lying. So while you may think that’s a ban, it is in effect a guide - explicit limited things one cannot do which define the boundaries of the myriad ways one may defy the spirit of the rule. (Kind of like regulations which big businesses carve around while using as barriers to the entry of smaller competitors.)

You seem to argue that politicians who lie deserve no defense. Putting aside the immaturity of that proposition (or the arrogance of it, as it presumes you know who deserves and doesn’t deserve a defense), this would mean no living politician save Jimmy Carter is worth defending. They all lie, a lot. It’s assumed, a feature, and getting incensed about someone defending them is silly.

I did crim defense. I’ll take the other side of almost any prosecution. It’s fun, and you take it too seriously.

I didn’t support money laundering, either. Nor have I supported banks, insurers, developers, or some really sketchy personal injury plaintiffs. But I worked for them, and where they were defendants, I defended them even when I detested them. I believe there’s an ethics rule of some sort on that...

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

O.K., liar.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

Child.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

Look, Mister, we don't make fun of minors here.

Re: More Sebby bullshit
 

This reminds me that Knives Out is fun. People should go see it.

I personally don't lie. This post kinda makes me want to hurl.