Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Sidd, this is the sort of simplistic and silly stuff I was disagreeing with.

Sebby, do you realize that Islam's texts are much newer than the Bible and the Talmud?

[UNRELATED]Sebby, you'll like this.[/UNRELATED]

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

2. But what are they selling?

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

They are selling attention. They offer acceptance and give the alienated a sense of belonging and purpose. They tell the desperate, lonely, disaffected that they matter.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

but it's sold as the religion.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

You fucking moron. That's part of the point. The newest kid on the block is behaving like the most ancient degenerates. And Islam, despite being the youngest of the big three, is also ancient.

Seriously. You think anyone here doesn't know the chronology of the texts at issue?

I've made fun of Islam for borrowing from Christianity and Judaism in the past on god only knows how many occasions. Look it up. You're a mod.

Think before you post dumb shit attempting to demonstrate, cheaply and lazily, how much more nuanced your understanding is of the issue at hand. It's not so much because you make an ass of yourself doing so, but because you encourage Adder.

ETA:

Beheadings by sword = Ancient.
Stoning = Ancient
Enslavement/bazaar sale of women = Ancient
Blowing up Buddhist statutes because they offend the prophet = Ancient
Etc.

Do I seriously have to make a case describing how the Taliban is closer to the stone age than present day Christian/Hindu/Jewish fundamentalists? Did you really think arguing something imbecile as the suggestion I or anyone else here thought Islam was older than Judaism wouldn't get you flagged?

Cut the debate class nonsense. You know better.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Ask him what an HSA is.

Fuck this place
 

I'm done with it. PLF is right. This is a waste of time. And it's no fun anymore.

I'll see you all on the other board.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I'm just as big a part of the problem. Wonk nailed me earlier and I then dissembled and ducked his point. He had a good one about me generalizing and where I should have admitted he scored a point, I pivoted - like a dickhead lawyer - to avoid it.

That's what happens here.

Sidd nailed it all today. There really wasn't much more to say on the subject. And GGG had sincere points which, though I might disagree, are resonant. TM dropped the usual brutal logic.

The rest of it is shit.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Clearly your profundity was too subtle for me.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Yeh, lots of bad shit. Of course, there's other bad shit in the world. Ask yourself, would you rather go out at Abu Gharib or with a beheading?

One of the things you are seeing with ISIS in terms of military strategy is a fundamentalist version of shock and awe, a policy we carried out behind a ton of armor and often from the safety of drone control rooms. A key goal for IS is to absolutely terrify people so they will surrender or run, making the military conquests much easier.

Similar approaches were used by Christians in the Balkan ethnic cleansing and the Ugandan genocide, though things like gang rapes (including of children) and mutilation were the Christians' preferred weapons of choice, and in each of those cases the places to run was much more limited so the death toll considerably higher. If they had our armor and our weaponry, more of their killing would be civilized like ours - you know, blowing people's limbs off so they bleed to death at a wedding, bombs filled with shrapnel so they shred a lot of flesh, whether they kill or maim. But we like to be smug and say we're civilized. It's an old story.

Once again, not denying that lots of bad stuff happens in countries that are Islamic, but I fail to see Islam as intrinsically or particularly evil. The reason to care about the debate has nothing to do with some smarmy asshole of a comic's ratings or whether a two-bit Hollywood pretty boy gets excited on TV. The reason to care is that ultimately Islam is goingto be one component of the various solutions in the Middle Eastern countries dealing with radical Islam, and the mix of bigotry and phobia that characterizes American's dealing with Islam is a barrier to that.

Also, if we really looked hard at what fuels political Islam, we would be dealing very, very differently with our good friends in Saudi Arabia, who are at the very root of the problems and always have been, and also very differently with many people in places like Lebanon, Turkey, and even Iran, where there are Islamic groups we could work with who would be a more effective alternative to some of the bad guys.

Salaam.

Re: Fuck this place
 

Oh come on. Just visit here on the days when you're in a black mood and need to wail on Hank's idiocy a little for therapy. I'll happily pour you a nip of your choice when you visit.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Big piece of Islam's appeal. There is a very strong social justice and empowerment of the dispossessed element in Islamic theology.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

As you're sincerely interested in fostering greater understanding here, I'll reply.

The shock and awe argument is good. I think it appears a lot more savage to actually slice off a head, or bomb statues, than fire bullets from drones, but your point does hold. And there's no argument that our bombing innocents from helicopters is any less barbaric simply because it's done from a disconnected perch. Still, I think the important issue here is the West's perception. And our perception is that beheadings and selling women, and fundamentalism generally, are stone age behaviors. (Nevermind the irony in us judging foreign fundamentalists given the idiocy of our bible belt.)

I'd like to make clear - I do not support any suggestion Islam is inherently evil. Nor do I think Maher does. I think it's just a religion like any other (though my criticisms of each are unique, my level of respect for them is the same from faith to faith [I think anyone praying to a man in the sky is deluding himself, and the texts are all absurd fictions]).

My position would be that Islam is going through a rough patch like Christianity did during its brutal periods. I think we agree more than we disagree.

Were it only the public discussion took place in the manner we've had it here, rather than between a firebrand comedian and college students.

But then-- Maher and Berkeley have ignited the discussion. There is benefit there.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Ultimately, we have a different view of Maher. I can't listen to a sentence out of his mouth on Islam without three or four cringes, and when he's called on any one of them, even if its on one of his simple factual errors, he digs in. If he has no defense, he refocuses on some new invective. His ignorance is simply breathtaking, and loudmouthed ignoramuses are part of the problem. And his views on Islam focus on things like his mother of bad ideas statements and his views that it is in some way particularly evil at its core.

I saw the decade end, when it seemed the world could change in the blink of an eye.
 

25 years since the Berlin Wall fell. Nice to be reminded that change can be a good thing.