Re: Fantastic
 

My biggest feelings about race these days aren't actually about public policy. I hate the stuff the Trumpsters are doing with a passion, I can't stand a lot of the way the discussion is had in public, I am willing to give a loud Amen to just about every complaint anyone here has. But those complaints aren't what really gets me.

My biggest feelings on race are all about the hiring and promotion process, because I've invested heavily in a number of very talented minority lawyers and they have been important to my practice and I am watching them get the shaft in their practice and work life every day. Some of them have moved to larger firms where they deal with a whole range of challenges, some of them still work for us and I can help with some but not all of their challenges, most of them they have to deal with themselves, and some have gone inhouse, where, frankly, there seems to be the lowest bullshit quotient over race. But the challenges and barriers thrown up are annoyingly persistent through the day and night for them (and as a result me) and come from progressives, liberals, conservatives, what have you. There are some conservatives who deal with diversity on a one-on-one level better than most progressives. But it is rage over the workplace shit that most upsets me.

And I don't have to deal with the shit these folks get outside of work, that's stuff I just hear about. And the stuff at work I deal with second hand, not first, of course.

But here's the question I have, sparked by that article: why aren't more white people in a rage over this? Is it because the only people they've actually invested in are white like them? Because we all invest in other folks in some way.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

YOU GUYS ARE FOCUSING TOO MUCH ON THIS PIECE OF THE ARTICLE.

Arguments can be made that from redistricting of schools to how the Justice system is set up to keep police from ever being accountable to how real estate agents steer people to certain neighborhoods, to a thousand different subtle things, etc., that you are wrong. But if you read that article and come away wanting to discuss why white progressives (i.e., you) aren't the worst problem, then I have to wonder if we read two different articles.

Spoken like someone who has never spent a considerable amount of time in the minority.

Let me tell you something as the only black guy in the room throughout school and my career almost ALL the time. Constant micro-aggressions are fucking exhausting. Whoever gave them that name did the concept a real disservice. When I went to school, in a 3 hour span, I may have heard:

"What part of the ghetto did you grow up in?"
"Can I touch your hair?" [Back when I had it, and no, it isn't just women who experience this.]
"Wow, how did you get in to such a good school?"
"Excuse me, sir, are you in the right place?" for the 40th day in a rowfrom a security guard as white person after white person flies by.
"Are you a member of this gym?"
"Wow. A platinum card. Can I see your ID?" while no one else gets asked for ID.

All micro-aggressions. And that is the absolute smallest slice of examples I can cut. They might seem small, but let me tell you something, they make you want to commit murder after hearing them day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year your entire fucking life.

This is the holy grail of white people who want to throw up their hands and say, "Minorities and liberals are out of control!"

Yeah. Some college campuses are struggling with this. But I hear about this bullshit out of the mouths of white people more than I hear about examples of actual racism. It is such a small problem relative to the overwhelming issues related to racism that it amazes me when otherwise smart, informed people act like it's going to destroy the world.

I went to a small liberal arts school in the early 90s. We had many similar problems then that you are describing now. A lot of it is ridiculous. Shouting down speakers? Ridiculous. Safe spaces? Do you know what this means? Is it okay for people who are in an extreme minority to have a place to go where they feel safe and comforted? Sure. Is it overdone on campuses? Maybe. Have you ever encountered someone demanding one? No. Just fucking stop it. Trigger warnings? Yeah, I've heard of it. Do I know anyone who has ever been anywhere that requires a trigger warning or was it in some article that I read as an example of things just going way in the wrong direction.

All of these examples are used to reduce and diminish the experience of people of color. It's the same as when "Political correctness is out of control" was the exasperation of the day. Citing these examples is a tactic designed to let white people who don't really give a shit off the hook. And it makes them feel better about themselves.

No. But go buy the book.

TM

Re: Fantastic
 

I'll have to respond tomorrow. I gotta run to a meeting.

TM

Re: Stay away from Not Bob - he always goes for the hair
 

Do me a favor everyone (not just TM).

There are 100 of these things I can identify that drive me batty when I see them happen. But I'm sure there are some I do unconsciously. Everyone feel free to clobber me when I do one of these.

But, TM, what kind of fool pays for a platinum card?

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

I seriously have to question anyone who wants to talk about PC on college campuses, and who does not actually spend time on college campuses (ahem, Jonathan Chait). It is such a non-problem for the rest of society, and it is a diversion from what matters, not to mention a marketing scheme for right-wing provocateurs. And if someone does spend time on a college campus and does not focus first on fraternity drinking, which actually kills people all the time, their priorities are seriously out of whack.

Have you read the book, or just the review?

Re: Fantastic
 

Apropos of which, this looks interesting.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

Thurgreed's reply to my post was interesting in several ways.


1. Yes, I did take away from the article that the author was calling out white progressives as the worst hindrances to minority advancement. We did read the same article with significantly different take-aways.



2. Thurgreed's examples of microaggressions were sobering. Point taken.


3. We will have to agree to disagree on the other politically correct nonsense. I believe the refutation of trigger warnings, safe spaces, and shouting down speakers of any stripe is important.



4. Read the book? I'll take another look at the article and decide. And for those of you who DIDN'T get my Jason Spenser reference, you must, immediately, go to you tube. If this slobbering moron isn't the stupidest hominid on the planet, I challenge you to tell me who is.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

I found this to be a really fascinating article on gender. There's so very much to unpack. Though there was a lot that was unsurprising. The article talks to four transmen about the differences they've encountered after transitioning from female to male. Since we're complex people, intersectionality is part of this, and the first dude who is black has a lot of interesting insight with regard to transitioning from black female to black male. The last dude is of Chinese descent, and he has some stuff to say about the cultural baggage associated with gender too.

This feature/bug, in particular, I find all the time in dudes, but I didn't realize was (possibly) a testosterone thing.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

Most of the people complaining about safe spaces have plenty of their own. Why do whites cluster among themselves so much? You know all those spaces white people cluster, whether country clubs, schools, churches, homes, those are safe spaces. For white people.

As to shouting people down, what do you think about the people who block the Westboro Baptist Church folks who protest at funerals and the like? Should they not shout them down and block them out? How much difference is there between Westboro and Milo or one of the other alt-right neo-Nazis? Is there any meaningful difference? They have a right to speak, but not a right to a platform at a particular place or to be able to shut down others who want to speak.

Sure, I believe in being civil, but there are times and places that call for incivility - blocking the Westboro Baptist Church protesters at funerals is clearly one. I don't think it's a bright line - who has been shut down whom you think is civil themselves, who wasn't going to, for example, call for the schools to exclude and not accept many of the people protesting? Maybe tell them they don't belong and should leave the country?

I also think incivility can backfire, which is why we've learned that the alt-right has paid people to dress up and cause problems at some of their talks. They live off that stuff.

As to trigger warnings, what, you don't want the TV shows to tell us when there is violence or nudity on a show? Think of the kids!

Bottom line: most of this stuff is overblown, often by people with an agenda for overblowing it. Don't react with a knee-jerk against all of it, think.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

"Important"? It seems like there are so many other more important things going on relative to ginned up outrage about events on college campuses. I mean, really?

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

Uh. Or ask a person of color. Don't get fooled by the term, the people who they are directed at notice.

Yes, it is annoying to warn people about sensitive content they may wish to avoid. He said on a board with a tradition of spoiler alerts. You didn't want to know what's on last night's episode of Mad Men. Some people don't want to read about other people's trauma.

Conservatives want a safe space (i.e., not to get protested) on campus. Why doesn't that bother you?

Meanwhile, leftist faculty get fired, but there's no freakout about free speech over that.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

A member of the family also made that transition and had similar changes. Hormones seem to matter a lot.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

the senate even with the seats distributed between the states based upon population is not representative. LA and the Bay Area control x% of the house seats in Cali but 100% of the senate seats. We should give LA/SF control of 10 senate seats even though that mean 30 or 40% of the state is not represented (as they are not now but maybe represented by the Montanas of the Union?). We’ve created these meaningless state lines, and those boundaries have nothing to do with where is population. Thurgreed 2008 would have realizedI was just fucking with him on the Trump reference:sad. Your lumbago acting up?


except every time the lesser vote getter became Prez it was because of lib dimwits voting third party. W won (hi ty!!!) Fla because of Nader voters for fucks sakes. You don’t throw out a system that gas functioned fairly well to try something no one does because some space fucks can’t think straight. To quote someone - fuck outta here

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

Would that depend on how that would work?

Friend, LA has nothing to do with it. California has two Senators from San Francisco -- one the former mayor, the other the former DA. Before Harris, it was Boxer, who is from Marin County. Those of us who live south of Brisbane haven't been represented in the Senate (in the sense in which you seem to mean) in decades.

Re: We are all Slave now.
 

I think everyone should be on a board with a plan to stop calling soy milk, oat milk, almond milk and other such abominations "milk," and so I think it's fantastic that the Trump Administration seems to be ready to help the dairy industry get those hippies out of my fridge, or at least to stop pretending that what they are selling is "milk." Sadly, the conservative Supreme Court justices' new First Amendment jurisprudence may save the oat milkers yet.