Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

Indeed. When one sits with the proles at a sporting event, more sophisticated attire is required:

http://www.demotivateus.com/posters/...nal-poster.jpg

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

Statutory rape laws still exist because minors are not competent to consent, and non-minors have a duty to inquire.

Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

Packer fans are an exceptional bunch. My team, however: not so much. http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/20...4/alg_fans.jpg

Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

Not even close. But I usually have really really good seats at Comiskey.*

I tailgated south of McCormick before the Steelers game two weeks ago. Walking from there to Soldier Field made me realize that very few Bears fans actually live in the city. Just an angry group of people who had no problems smashing their bottles of beer on the ground after finishing them.**

*I sound like e/o now. Even when I don't have good seats, I find Bears fans to be exponentially worse than Sox fans. But maybe that's b/c I'm a Sox fan (although I'm fully aware of the general white-t-ness of it all).

**ETA another Coming to America reference!

"Fascinating! Semmi, look at this! America is great indeed. Imagine a country so free, one can throw glass on the streets!"

Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

Do you think you know more or less about football than Prince Akeem in Coming to America?

Prince Akeem: Sir, did you happen to catch the professional football contest on television last night?
Cleo McDowell: No, I didn't.
Prince Akeem: Oh sir, the Giants of New York took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory.
Cleo McDowell: Son.
Prince Akeem: Yes?
Cleo McDowell: If you want to keep working here, stay off the drugs.
Prince Akeem: Yes.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

ummm, a majority of my son's graduating class are potentially felons, and yet no one was prosecuted. can you break that down for me?

Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

Oh, Bears fans are generally worse, but I don't hear about anyone around Chicago except thugs at Sox games (won't call them fans) beating up fathers who ask nicely for less profanity around the kids.

Of course, at Soldier Field the fathers encourage the kids to join in the profanity and beating up anyone who disagrees with them.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

I was statutorily raped by a senior cheerleader. Or I would have been if someone wouldn't have walked in when I had my dick out.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

Nobody's dad got pissed enough to push the point. I didn't think I really had to state that these statutes are among the class of laws that are very selectively enforced.

Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

I'm guessing the flipside is true at Vikings games.

Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

I have the seats of one of the Sox owners for opening day next year, because we went to a charity auction and my wife told me we had to buy something. I don't think that was what she had in mind...

I've had really good seats before, but I'm expecting this to be "really really" good.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

yeah, like when the girl was actually raped.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

What's MI law? Is it like CA, where it's 18-1 minute is jailbait for anyone 18+1 minute*? Or is it somewhat rational.

*plus something else like 2 years difference in age (or something) if they're both under 18, so long as both are over 14.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

Can someone translate?

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

cletus thinks i do research.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

I know of such a prosecution around here. I never quite got the backstory, but it was pled out with a stiffer sentence than the director asshole got.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

From a quick google, I doubt a majority of them meet the elements of a felony. Probably more would be a misdemeanor.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

Well, since we are relying on anecdotal information for our arguments, I am married to a public defender who has handled a case of statutory rape involving consensual sex and is personally aware of a number of other such cases, and they involved white people in the north.

As for my second paragraph, I was simply pointing out that your argument that societal attitudes have not changed because rape was a crime in the 70s and is still a crime now is so moronic that I am embarrassed for you that I have to rebut it twice.

Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

I was thinking that my colors were unusual, but there are at least half a dozen in 1-A alone.

When I used to teach at a local university, my boss wanted me to include the university's colors into my handout and presentations. Instead, I used my alma mater's version of the color. I was only called out once, when a prof asked during an informal presentation whether I realized that my color palette was precisely that of [my alma mater], where she had been on faculty.

Re: Top Chef
 

I liked Fabio.

And I had a panic attack last night when my DVR failed to record Top Chef. It never occured to me that they'd not air a new episode.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

The fact that a recent consensual statutory rape pled out with a stiffer sentence that Polanski got for drugging and anally raping a 13 year old in the 70s seems to suggest that societal attitudes on rape may have changed, but Hank busted that myth pretty good, so your case must be an outlier.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

No, but it seemed to be one of your areas of expertise.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

Are you serious? Please tell me that you can figure out the answer to this one by yourself.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

ok, and other than pretty baby can you point the slimmest thread of evidence that the lax 70s attitudes extended to 13 Year olds. does that evidence extend to anally raped 13 year olds? how about drugged ones?

i mean shit, if anything, attitudes about 15/16/17 year old girls being sexually active have probably relaxed since the 70s-

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

polanski didn't "get a sentence" yet. maybe he'll get one soon. ask your wife about the lawyer terms before you toss them around.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

I cannot spend my day explaining obvious things to you. Go back and look at the post I was responding to and see if you can figure out why I used the terms that I did.

Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

Huh. There seem to be a LOT of kids at Texans games. My dad even remarked on it when we were leaving last week and we watched some father carrying his sleeping daughter off. I pointed out that he used to take me to Oilers games when I was a kid, and he said that he never took a kid who couldn't make it through the whole game and walk on their own two feet out of the stadium.

A family of five sat behind us last week. The non-infant kids got bored pretty early and kept on asking when they could go. The dad pointed out the game clock and told them that they only had however minutes left. I suspect his wife was happy that the last Texans touchdown was flagged away and then fumbled away, because it could have easily otherwise gone into overtime.

I couldn't want to take kids to a pro-football game mainly because it's pricey, and they don't get much out of it. The seventy bucks plus concessions is better spent on a babysitter.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

So, i looked it up. Michigan is much tougher than the (old) CA law I opaquely set out. The relevant section is:

750.520d: (1) A person is guilty of criminal sexual conduct in the third degree if the person engages in sexual penetration with another person and if any of the following circumstances exist:

(a) That other person is at least 13 years of age and under 16 years of age.

...

(2) Criminal sexual conduct in the third degree is a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 15 years.

No carveout for similar ages. Two fifteen year olds doing any of "sexual intercourse, cunnilingus, fellatio, anal intercourse, or any other intrusion, however slight, of any part of a person's body or of any object into the genital or anal openings of another person's body, but emission of semen is not required." are both potential felons.

Of course, there's no stated exception for medical professionals or anyone else, either. I guess a wet willie could thoeretically get you 15 years hard time.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

I took his point to be (1) that back then you could present the "she's a slut" defence much more easily, and (2) that it was much more likely to be accepted then, regardless of the age of the victim.

I have no idea whether that second part is true, but the first undoubtedly is. I do think it is likely that there was much more stigma attached to sexually active unmarried women then than there is now, which seems important to evaluating (2). The question is whether the victim's age trumps that.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

Texas is 17. Affirmative defense if the victim is over 14 and the defendant is a) opposite sex and b) not more than three years older.

It pisses me off that there's a reporting requirement for healthcare professionals if the find out a minor is sexually active with someone of the same sex, even if there's little or no age difference.

Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

do you sit in no-alcohol sections? when my kids were like 10-13 we went to several games, and actually sat in the "executive level at the silverdome and then ford field.

my children have seen their role models somewhat drunk, so don't take this as a prudish statement, but their were drunken fights and near fights all around me. I really couldn't relax.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...de55970c-320wi

Explained here.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

dude "she's a slut" is not a defense to "you had sex with someone who is 13."

there's that whole "elements of a crime" thing.

1 did Roman have sex? Yes
2 was the female 13? yes
if so > guilty

WAIT! she was asking for it!

doesn't matter-

it like if you steal a TV and try to argue that it was defective, so you really didn't steal much

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

I can't say I'm surprised about that. With tougher enforcement and penalties than for the duty to report child abuse, too?

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

You're right. Juries always ignore things that are legally irrelevant and instead focus closely on the elements of the law.

ETA: I haven't been paying that much attention, but I had assumed that had Polanski pulled out of the plea deal he would have faced the forcible rape charges that were initiall brought (perhaps in addition to statutory rape).

Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

Because I am e/o, I believe in only attending sporting events when you have really really good seats, which, because I am e/o, I have frequently had. Aside from hoops, most sporting events are better on tv, unless you're at the alma mater, standing and singing, etc.

My best seats ever were on the floor at a basketball game that a friend bought at a charity auction. We knew that they could absolutely hear our trash-talking. Apparently, hot girls yelling very technical complaints at the refs can make basketball players laugh. (Or maybe it was the girls turning to the OddMan to say "did I say that right?")

I bought a package of playoff tickets for the OM for his birthday one year so he could see his favorite NBA team play the local-ish boys. They were shitty seats since I had no pull and was not a season ticket holder, and in the last one we attended, his team lost by 30-40 points (though came back to win the series). He begged me to never do that again. Even our previous seats in the 8th row would not have made that better, but he would have been less likely to get into a fist fight.

Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

Your persona is inconsistent with having an alma mater at which this would happen.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

i have no experience with criminal juries- do you have any non-TV experience?

i do have experience with juries generally, and i think one could keep them focused on the facts of this one.

i am done with this- it sickens me to discuss it.

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

When my cousin's oldest son was graduating from high school, he started dating an 8th grader. As the "family lawyer," I had a little chat with him about the statutory rape laws.

Re: Tucker is an Irvin fan?
 

No. I sit right on the corner of the north end zone, about 20 rows up, and beer is flowing until the third quarter. There also is a lot of tailgating in the parking lot before the games. I've only seen two or three fights in the 8 seasons I've had tickets. There are always a couple of drunken jackasses, but generally no one violent or near violent. There was a guy the first few years who was a little over enthusiastic in his cheering, and I think that other fans complained. He stopped going after awhile, though.