Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

It's the housing prices that are scaring the shit out of the hypothetical displaced person.

Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

Then I would pitch said hypothetical person on proximity to San Francisco and their lively dj/electronica/music/club scene, although I have no personal knowledge or experience in that subculture. I am happy to point out the relative merits of all the local Costcos in the area, however.

Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

It scares the shit out of any thinking person. Even those of us who already sank three quarters of a million dollars of mostly future earnings (not counting interest) into a 1,200 sq. ft. shit-shack on the wrong side of the railroad tracks. Mostly, it scares me not because I fear there will ever be a lack of idiots who will one day fist-fight each other to take that shack off our hands for an ever-rising nominal price, but because a ton of people I love have moved away because they've concluded it's child abuse to have two parents working fulltime white collar jobs for the dubious privilege of living through their kids' college years trapped in a single-family-detached residence that anywhere else in the country would be called a "starter home."

Or maybe that's just me.

Ten years ago I would have said the only reason someone WOULDN'T want to live here is that they can't afford it, but if you can, there's no better place. I think I'm less of an asshole now so I make fewer categorical judgments. You moved away and you had good reasons; I know you know of many others. The world is lousy with awesome places to live.

What I would say is that every place has its PASSIONATE denizens and the SFBA has tons of those. Nearly all of them are from elsewhere but they're fucking nuts about here now. (Not being chauvinist here; other places do too.) So here's my pitch: It's the people who make a place. I like the people who decide to live here, or who try. I continue to like them when/if they move away. I think the SFBA is a "big sort" for people who embrace a kind of Californian optimism that I find really attractive (even though I find it maddening when that optimism resolves into a belief that we can fix everything by exerting more control over people's lives and choices). There are tons of SFBA expats where you live. If you like them, there's a decent chance you'll like the others where they came from, or chose to live even for a short time. Even if they all moved away, you might find that you tend to like people who came to where you are from the same place.

That would be my pitch to someone who is unsure. It won't work as a reason to move to Palo Alto if this person dearly loves everyone who used to live in The Mission, but I would rather lose the argument than win it by trick or ruse.

(Confession: The opposite is sometimes true. I find I have to work harder to like people who moved here from TCOTU. At this point it's probably a bias, but originally it was because I noticed a tendency for them to want to talk about "the best" this and "the best" that. So I'll say it: people from NYC have an uphill battle for my affection, which most have eventually won with their other, good qualities.)

Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

I have always feared that if I ever spent any appreciable amount of time living anywhere else, I'd never move back to the Bay Area again. It takes a special type of crazy to live here and actually enjoy it.

Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

Yeah, the people are definitely a major factor in the equation. A lot of my people, seem to be doing the Texodus from places like the Mission and the East Bay, including my sister, who just gave up after 15 years in the SFBA. She's living on a ranch for a year and then headed to Austin to grad school after establishing residency here. Out of state here is cheaper than in state in one of the UCs, and in state is worth a half year of unemployment followed by picking up contract work. (In a freak coincidence, she quit from her place of employment about a week after a headhunter representing them called me. Seems they always want someone from our family on the payroll. In another weirdly timed coincidence, my other sister's boyfriend is also being recruited to the same place.) I still have a fair number of good friends in the area, but ya'll are my only Peninsula people.

My major issues are expense, fear of suburbia, and fear of commute.

I currently live in a rapidly gentrifying Castro/Mission-esque neighborhood 3.5 miles from work (12 minute commute over surface streets by car, 45 by bike/light rail/walk combo, which yesterday in the 90plus degree heat wasn't all that bad). My mortgage is under a thousand dollars, and while taxes are going up, they're definitely not bad in the aggregate. I'm no where near underwater, so if we do end up selling we will have something to enter the terrifying real estate market there with. I love where I live, and I'd rather go through the agony of expanding/renovating than moving if we stay here.

Professionally, I think that the SFBA would be a better place for my spouse, but he's developing an international presence where it's not really important for him to be based anywhere in particular in the US. He has a ton of friends in the area, again in SF and the East Bay. For me professionally, I think it's a step up, but I technically won't be a lawyer if I'm offered and accept the position. Certainly it'd be a salary bump as I'm woefully under market, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make given the vast cost of living difference.

We're trying to start a family and miscarried twins at nine weeks in late May. Who knows what will happen, but we know we CAN get pregnant, so I'm guessing that within a year we'll probably be expecting again. (It took about 8 months of trying to get pregnant last time around.) Here, we have a ton of family support, which we won't have there unless my sister and her boyfriend move too. My spouse is flexible enough that he could be a stay at home dad for a bit, but we may need the extra income there much more than we would here.

All of this assuming I get an offer that's attractive.

ETA: It is the only place in the country where I don't immediately say "no thank you" when I get a recruiting call. I pay my inactive California bar dues every year just in case. Three or four years ago, I think I would have been much, much more excited about this as I am now, though. I think the kid thing probably plays into that the most, but it also may have to do with how much things have changed on the people front there in the last few years.

Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

Ok, I'm going to define the Peninsula as everything starting south of San Francisco, and ending at Palo Alto.

There is no doubt that it is going to be expensive--and a relative shock probably. As for suburbia, it certainly is not as funky/groovy/eclectic as parts of SF, Berkeley and other cities/neighborhoods--but speaking as a local, it was a pretty nice place to grow up in. There is a lot of opportunity here, lots of decent people, lots of access to things to do/see. There are also a lot of assholes and problems. At this stage in my life, I'm okay with pretty predictable, boring suburbia. As for the commute, Peninsula to SF is not going to be all that wonderful, but it's nothing like LA traffic, and you can also take the train/BART, or carpool.

Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

I'm terribly sorry to hear about the loss of your twins. I'm a little sorrowful thinking about it so what's below might be overstated accidentally.

You originally asked for "how to sell" a conflicted person — and I assumed that was your husband, not you. Now knowing your situation I'm conflicted about whether to sell. I've had more than my fair share of babies, and have tried to help as dot-commers thousands of miles from their parents have tried to go it alone here on the baby front. Nearly all of them moved "back home," usually shortly after the arrival of Child 2. Truth be told, I'm very enthusiastic about the kind of suburbia we've cultivated here on the Peninsula — if you doubt, look at the beating I happily took two Fridays ago from Sidd and Less — but it has only worked well when either one or both grandparents was also local or there was some other kind of kick-ass support system in place. For us, that took the form of local grandparents plus a hyperactively involved church community helping at all times. No offense, but if our peer group had been more heavily weighted toward DINKs and bohemian SF types who were 30 minutes away at best, I think we would have moved to Virginia by now to be closer to my wife's family. Having kids is a serious business and ours is the first generation to think we could do it thousands of miles from our hometowns (excepting Ma and Pa Wilder, I reckon) and it comes at an enormous toll — cobbled-together daycare arrangements, au pair drama, sick days off work out the wazoo. Being alone in the house with a baby while your rising star husband works nights is going to suck big time, and you'll have to stay committed to the decision it will be worth it in the long run, because during all the short runs on the way it will not seem worth it.

If the person you're convincing is you, I would recommend staying in Texas. Not because the Peninsula is not right, but because all places that are not with your extended family are equally wrong. If you're gung ho for SF but think the Peninsula is a different place, relax. The Peninsula is basically SF with parking and without the nightlife that is useless to young parents anyways. Yes, we're all soccer moms, but there's a place for cool-ass soccer moms in this world, and SF is a place where even the supposedly uncompromising liberals put their kids in $30K private schools, so don't take advice from anyone who is living a life there that you cannot.

If you need advice about cities or school districts, hit me up on FB chat — I wouldn't want to offend Flinty.

Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

I'm sorry that your friend got hit by a bike, but motor vehicles are far more dangerous to pedestrians (and bicyclists) than bicyclists are to pedestrians.

Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

I thought that too, but it didn't turn out that way.

Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

I have a lot to say about all of this and I think I come out in a different place, but I'm not sure I want to post it all on the interwebs, so I may take this off-line, as they say. So sorry about the twins.

Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

Flinty, you're talking shit at the moment, but you know and I know, and you know that I know that you know, that 5 years from now you'll be on this little board writing about how your commute from Santa Ana to Irvine wasn't nearly as bad as you thought it would be.

Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

I grew up in a poor town with redneck dumb fucks. I've had cars TRY to hit me, I believe because "running is gay." Because of this I have chops so that a car will never hit me running or walking*. I do not leave that as an opportunity, as I can always see cars coming. On the other hand bike in bikes lanes and generally are much harder to see and anticipate. I guess I'm saying one can be more careful and do okay with cars.

As to your sentiment, PayPal me $50 and I will pass it on to him.

*and I am not unsympathetic to those hit by cars, as my biggest internet crush was.

Re: Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV
 

Ah shit, are things really going that badly for me in the future? I always thought I'd move to some place way out in the country, where I'd have a lot of guns, some solar panels and high speed satellite internet, if there is such a thing. No offense, Gatti (NCS, Paisley, etc.), but if I had to live in Southern Cal, I'd probably go more insane. It takes a special type of crazy to live there, and I don't have it.

LA's fine, the sun shines (most of the time), and the feeling is laid back.
 

California has a special place in the American mind/soul/dream. And there is no question that both San Francisco and LA are beautiful, magical places. When I went to Beverly Hills in a February many (ack!) years ago for a pool-side mediation (I am Not Kidding), I learned first hand why people move there. Heck, I had picked out a gold Firebird and lined up a mobile home in Malibu before the first break-out session ended.

Then my client reminded me that I hate traffic (true) and the beach (also true). And that I wasn't rich (alas, very true) or good-looking (ouch), and that while I would love seeing games at Dodger Stadium (probably true; will have to go to confirm), I would hate seeing hockey at the Staples Center. And while I probably would like seeing hockey at the Pond in Anaheim, it's too far, and, besides, it's in Anaheim.*

And then the hot bartender called me "sir" in a way that said, politely, "you, Not Bob, remind me of Jason Alexander's character in Pretty Women," and the magic was completely gone.

*Note that I am only relaying the sneer. I have a different (but also very good) client in Anaheim, and am told that it is a delightful place.

Re: LA's fine, the sun shines (most of the time), and the feeling is laid back.
 

my golden so-cal moment happened at a Kings game on a Tuesday night. We were there on the endless depo march. We saw Gretskey (sp?) near the end.

Anyhoo, the game is wrapping at 10:30 PM and the big screen starts giving freeway traffic reports. Think. about. it.

If I could work and live in Orange Ct, or Santa Monica or Venice, golden, otherwise, naw.