Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 

My child has already offended a number of people at work by stating, "The wall is just a selling point for dumb people." Of course I was credited as the source.

Also gets that politics is not an honorable business.

Each generation trusts the institutions less. This is progress.

Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 

If you don't want to be called those things, then don't say things like, "I don't think it's really about her gender." Don't respond to women telling you that they see a lot of sexism with, "nope." Don't call people who mention it, "hysterical." Maybe don't think that "I'm critical of all sides" explains away something problematic you said.

Also, perhaps spend some time examining why you think a candidate who is not any more dishonest than the average politician is untrustworthy. Or why you think she's corrupt, despite decades of investigations that have turned up nothing.

On race and gender, what you say on here makes it look like you have a lot of internalized attitudes that you've not examined.

Re: Oh noes.
 

Two things:

You're not a moderate if given the opportunity you don't take that opportunity to disempower an extremist.
I don't care if you get tired. Everyone is tired.

And what's with this "boy" crying wolf? SEXIST!!!! [wink emoji]

Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 

I'll deal with these a bit in reverse.

Your last point is too silly to merit reply.

I can disagree with women about anything I like. Under your reasoning, women could not disagree with me about issues impacting males more directly than females. You see the idiocy there. And I did not call any woman hysterical for noting sexism at play in this election. I actually agreed it was present. Mine was an argument of degree. When I used hysterical, I said "you are all being hysterical." This applies to you, as an owner of a penis who posts here, as well as all other men here. (More abruptly, nice try, but everyone saw what you did there.)

I don't think she's more dishonest. I don't even dislike her. My main gripe with her is she's tired iron, with no new ideas. She's Jeb, whom I also detested. Corporatist. Stale. And protecting a fucked status quo. But she is gridlock. That's okay, so again -- I'm fine with her election. I just think it's more can kicking, at considerable cost later.

Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 

You might have gotten a hearing on this pre-trump, but not today. I think there are a lot of folks who need to be a lot more judicious about saying racist and sexist stuff, and exhibit religious intolerance, antisemitism, Islamiphobia.

The normalization of bigotry that has occurred this cycle is about to create a real gold-mine of litigation for employment lawyers. Because bad stuff is spilling over into the work environment.... like everywhere else.

Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 

It's not, but it's why we're having this conversation again.

You can, but when they are telling you about sexism, you shouldn't. And when I say, "shouldn't" I mean, if you care at all about learning anything and/or making the world less misogynistic. Or even if you just care about not sounding like an idiot to the women around you.

Yes, I see you've knocked down a truly silly strawman. You've won the internet!

You literally said that people concerned about bad outcomes from a Trump presidency, very much in the direct context of NCS, Gwinky, and RT expressing their concerns, were being "hysterical."

Now, I don't think you actually meant that word literally. But I do think you said it without even thinking about what it means. Which is part of my point.

Yes, you have. Go back and look.

Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 

So small businesses operate in a different economy? That's fascinating. Do explain. I was referring to the economy that includes every business in:

http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i...2-28-06-pm.png

You know, the one which the Republicans mismanaged from 2001-2009 with the sort of ideologically disastrous policies that they want to double down on.

Re: Oh noes.
 

(1) If people are racist and sexist and you shut down the people who point it out because you "tire of it," that's not a boy crying wolf -- that's an actual wolf that you don't care about, and then you are part of the problem. If that's your attitude, own it, but don't pretend you're not part of the problem.

(2) If Trump wins Pennsylvania by 1 vote and you voted for the Libertarian clown, then you were part of the problem, because you made an indulgent gesture instead of casting a vote that would make a difference. Again, if that's your attitude, own it (as you have).

I actually was in the position of having voted for the wrong candidate once in an election that was tied at the end of election night, so maybe this is just a little too real for me. I suspect that HRC will win Pennsylvania and give you the room to vote for a Libertarian.

(3) There shouldn't be enemies here. Most of us disagree with each other about something, but we all have to live with each other, so we'll be better off if we can acknowledge and recognize our differences and figure out how to get along.

It appears to me that a lot of Republicans are unwilling or unable to do this, which is a problem. (There are lefties with their own issues, but very few of them would rather burn things down than compromise.)

Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 

Unless referring to someone or something being very funny, I just don't use the word. It's too loaded. I use the word "uteral" instead.

Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 

Who doesn't? But while I am sympathetic with where you are trying to go, I second Sebby's implicit point that being told that one has a lot of internalized attitudes that one hasn't examined is not a particularly constructive way to change society, win an argument, or make friends and influence people. Maybe you should examine that.

Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 

The best way to do so is the way gwnc did it about 10 posts ago. The argument I'm not a moderate if I fail to act against the election of an extremist is logically hard to refute.

But I will find an end-run around it. Give me some time.

ETA: You raised it as well, but later.

Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 

It better be a really wide fucking field.

Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 

I think we all understand that voting is primarily an expressive function for you, and that you are trying to express a disdain for both sides and a belief that you are a free thinking and above it all, unconstrained by the foolish and pedestrian material concerns that occupy so many Democrats and Republicans. If we didn't abuse you for this, wouldn't that mean you had failed?

Re: Oh noes.
 

I make this exceptionally easy. I want to everyone to leave each other alone as much as possible. And I want the govt to leave everyone alone except where absolutely needed.

It's perhaps seen as a cold world view, and it is impossible, but I wish to try, and I will happily cooperate with to cut the necessary deals to get some of what I like.

We're not all in it together. Nor are we "better together." But I'll be happy to cooperate with those who feel that way.

Re: Cross-post From the Other FB
 

I'm not free thinking. I'm being served a shit sandwich and told I'd better smile while chewing, because it's in my best interest.

Petulant might best describe my mood. And yes -- sneering at those who will be happy with either of these two winning. Wednesday will be much like any other. If I see a redneck in one of those hats or a Hillary supporter smiling, I probably won't even bother to cut them off in traffic. But then again I might.