Re: By the way
 

I hear you. And if it weren't for the fact that the economy was teetering and one huge bank had already just failed, I would agree. Let them go down. But you let one more bank collapse in '08 and everything comes down. Everywhere. Rioting in the streets. Cats and dogs living together. Homosexuals marrying.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I don't disagree with you. Islam is an old religion and subject to a huge range of interpretations, as any other.

Here, in sum, is my view, or part of it. You and GGG and Wonk anyone else can feel free to call me racist, or tell me that I obviously hate all Muslims, or any other shit you feel like spewing. Forgive me in advance for not responding.

Today, and in recent years, violent extremists that find their inspiration and justification in religion are largely Muslim. (That does not mean "exclusively" Muslim, nor "all Muslims are bad," nor that there are not violent extremists finding their justification in something other than religion, such as national identity or race.)

These violent extremists get a level of support and sympathy among Muslims that I view as far too high -- higher than I would expect if, say, Catholic militias were blowing up Protestant churches and vice versa. (This does not mean that there has never been horrifying sectarian violence among Christians that many Christians supported or did not protest.)

Part of that support is seen in the phenomenon of Muslims from Western countries joining overseas extremist groups in a way that I believe is extraordinary in history.

Islam -- not inherently, but the way in which it is being taught to people -- has something to do with the above. I don't know why. I don't know why a Sunni cares so much about who Muhammad designated as his successor that he would kill a Shiite. In some instances, "has something to do with" means "is a primary factor," in others it means "contributes to, along with many other factors."

Islamic countries -- countries that are not just predominantly Muslim, but in which Islam is a dominant cultural fact and influence (for example, countries in which you can be jailed for defaming Islam) -- have certain cultural norms that I find disgusting, particularly relating to the treatment of women. (This does not mean that no non-Muslim nations treat women poorly.) That treatment is not limited to government policy but permeates down to a man-on-the-street level, and is often worse at that level, and in my personal experience also carries over, to a thankfully lesser extent, to Muslims who do not live in Islamic countries.

I believe that the way Islam is taught has a great deal to do with the last item, too.

All of the above does NOT lead me to believe that Islam is evil, or Muslims are evil. It does lead me to believe that there is a problem within Islam, generally, that needs to be fixed within Islam. In a similar vein to how I believe that there is a problem of racism within American society, that needs to be fixed within American society.

All of the above renders me a bile-spouting Muslim hater, I realize.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I was thinking about short term prejudice, like in reaction to some event, and whether a blurted out statement is forgivable or, ignorable maybe-

October 2001 I saw David Sedaris reading stories. He was living in Paris at the time and talking about how on edge he felt in a city with a large Islamic population as the US was gearing up to do war. He said "Frankly, I think we should turn the entire Middle East into a parking lot." If you don't know his work, this was not in keeping with his normal views.

A few years I saw him read again and by then he had dropped his original position and was hating on W for keeping wars going. This was much more in line with what I'd have expected from him.

And on one level, after 9/11 you might forgive, or understand, an extremely nasty statement as not indicative of a person's feelings. But on another level even fantasizing about mass genocide of entire populations seems to evidence a basic hate that might be normally kept hidden.

I still read his books. Should I?

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

You act like it's all filet mignon and blowjobs during the time prisoners are held before beheading. What a stupid thing to say.

I do not understand why we can't have a conversation about one thing without you constantly saying, "Hey! But look at all this other bad shit!" Yeah. That shit is bad too, whether it's in the past or being carried out right now. I don't need to talk about why McVeigh is drawn to radical militia-type groups. He's a fucking poor white man who thinks the government hates him and loves minorities. I don't need to talk about why the klan committed acts of terrorism. They're poor white people who were always told they were better than jews and blacks and who desperately wanted to hold on to that belief in a changing world.

If the answer to why so many people commit violent acts in the name of Allah is as simple as they are poor, disaffected and angry at the West, who they have been told is waging a religious war against muslims and brown-skinned people in general, then ok. Maybe that's the answer. But I don't get why we can't have a discussion about all the evil shit so many mullahs do in the name of Islam to women and non-western non-believers. It's like it's perfectly acceptable to read an article by a muslim woman who was raped and had to flee her homeland so she wouldn't be subject to an honor killing. But when I point to that article, all of a sudden it's a fucking problem.

What's funny about this is that your buddy Bill Maher was fired way back because he said that the people who flew the planes into the WTC weren't cowards, as every Western person was calling them at that point. He said committing suicide in furtherance of their cause (no matter how fucked up the cause) was the exact opposite of cowardice. But that is neither here nor there.

Why are you even saying this. Roughly NO ONE has made this argument anywhere on this board. Jesus fucking Christ.

Yes. Let's.

Sidd's right. This conversation has gone off the rails. One side is continually talking about the problem with a not insignificant part of the Islamic community, particularly in the Middle East, and wondering why that portion is so violent not just with acts of terrorism against us, but against women, people who live as neighbors who don't share the same beliefs, people who draw cartoons, people who write books, etc. Apparently no one can even ask that question because there are other groups of people out there who do evil shit too, like us. The other side keeps insisting that we stop talking about how Islam is evil. What the fuck? This is ridiculous.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Well fucking said. I agree.

TM

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

It's always sold as the religion. That's what organized religion's function is. It just comes down to a matter of degree. Some need the simple assurance that they are not alone and life has some purpose. Others need more, and they will always find a holy man willing to meet that need, in exchange for what they have to give.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

That's easy. An HSA is a smoke screen that is designed to make you pay more for your health care and think the G is giving you a break on it.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Gang rapes and mutilation are as much a part of the ISIS arsenal as anyone else's. They are practicing savagery on a massive scale and that is a big component of their strategy. They are inhuman savages undeserving of any quarter, much as they offer none to their opponents.

Don't let a good point get dragged down by offering any sort of support for those assholes.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Of course. That's part of God's bag, no matter what address he's listing. First taste is always free.

Re: I saw the decade end, when it seemed the world could change in the blink of an ey
 

Also a good time to call attention to the fact that Putin seems to be trying to erect a new one, even if it has pulled back a bit to the East.

Re: By the way
 

I hear you. But I think the whole thing could have come crashing down and the folks living on the street, or the ones living 8 to a studio apartment with no heat or running water wouldn't even have noticed. The hungry people wouldn't have been any more hungry. These days, I'm feeling it a lot more for them than I am for Jamie Dimon.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

Well, as long as you realize it, that's what's important, Bubbelleh.

Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 

I don't think the argument was or is about saying that there are some Muslims doing bad shit and teaching others that it's okay to do bad shit in the name of Allah. That is crystal clear and undisputable. What I was picking up in the discourse, and if I was misinterpreting, I'm sorry and I'll take it all back, was the suggestion that there was something inherent in Islam, unique to any other religious following, that was encouraging or nurturing that teaching.

Again, if I was reading too much into what anyone said, I'm sorry.

Re: By the way
 

Why increase the ranks of hungry people? The super rich wouldn't go hungry. The whole middle class would.

It would have been nice if the electorate was smart enough to understand what happened and decided to completely redo our financial system by electing people who would carry that out. But that wouldn't be fair. What if they were the rich ones?

TM

Re: By the way
 

They wouldn't be any worse off, but there would be a whole lot more of them.

A bank run is a real thing that has real consequences outside the banking system. Which is why we should be regulating the heck out of them, like we used to.