Restaurant tipping
 

The absolute worst restaurant service I have experienced was in the Bahamas where tip is automatically included in every bill. You could sit down and wait 20 minutes for someone to talk to you, 40 minutes for your food, 30 minutes for the check, etc. Hideous service everywhere except tiny native restaurants in the banking district where it was just really sloooow.

In Paris, tipping is considered insulting, more than perhaps leaving the change on a bill, and the service was always exemplary. That said, we tipped ridiculous amounts on the bill because the service was always so great, and we are ugly americans.

Even(uncouth)Odds

Restaurant tipping
 

In Washington, D.C., an enterprising DMV employee undertook a comparable system. He had people place $8 in a cardboard box to get copies of their driving records, when teh actual fee was $7. And the cardboard box was not the district's cash-strapped substitute for a lock-box.

On a related note, a friend went into the district DMV to renew a license (or something). The clerk admired her Cross pen (or some other not bic-cheap brand), "that's a nice pen," and proceeded to take it when my friend set the pen down on the counter. Friend commented "oh, where did my pen go?" DMV clerk said something like "here it is, sure would be nice to have a pen like this." Friend, fearing her license would turn up void when next pulled over, did not object.

I'm all for market-based economies, but not quite ready to apply the model to government services.

Restaurant tipping
 

You are so right about the Bahamas. It was absolutely infuriating. It's one of the reasons I won't go back.

Restaurant tipping
 

I guess I am just naive. I used to be a cashier in the days before scanners and baggers and the like and we had to manually ring shit up and then run down and bag it. I did a good job because I believed that was the deal. Excusing shitty job performance because of lower pay is why we have all of these morons running around. They should be taught to have respect for themselves, their customers and their employer. Remember, the schlep making $5.15 today may be your secretary someday and continue to excuse her own poor performance because what you see as a fair salary is viewed by her as too low. Just about everyone feels they are underpaid and if that is an accepted excuse for poor performance this place is in trouble. I have had a lot of shitty jobs (including shoveling horseshit) in my life and often they came with shitty pay but I did them all the best I could because, above everything else, I could not have respected myself if I was not doing my best.

ThrashersFan

Restaurant tipping
 

Yeah, once one gets out of law school, most people pony up at least their share. That's what made this no-more-dinners friend particularly egregious. He had money, he just never had money with him sufficient to pay his fair share of hte bill. Nearly everyone else now is happy, or has sufficient pride, to want to show that they can afford to pay their share fully, and that they're so flush that they can, in fact, not even bother to break the amount down below the ATM-standard $20 amount.

Survivor
 

Oh, none of you did anything wrong, I just wanted to make sure no one spoiled the show for me, since I would then be forced to cry like a little baby because my life is so pitiful that I cry if someone tells me who won a reality TV show that I am interested in.

Survivor
 

Then definitely stay away from MSNBC for awhile. I made the mistake of booting up the computer before I watched my Tivo'd Survivor show, and when the home page came up I was just pissed that they ruined it for me. Watched it anyway, but it's just not the same when you already know the results. The anticipation is the whole point of the show - without that it sucks.

survivor and 90210
 

I am fucking pissed. WHy on earth did CBS move its finale to Sunday when people like me who dont watch tv on a daily basis and certainly not CBS would have no idea that it was on? I dont even really remember the commercials saying it was on sunday when I watched thurs (not that i pay attention to commercials). How did anyone know it was on who actually do other things besides watch tv every night and all day on weekends? You watch the show all season then miss the end? How is this a good programming idea? Then I get stupid People Magazines email to me which announces the winner so even if they rerun it it is ruined.

And how was I supposed to know the 90210 reunion was on if I dont watch tv every day and only watch fox on tues and wed for AI? Like I am supposed to rememnver for five days? This I am not so upset about, but had it been melrose, I would have been pissed.

Fuck tv programmers. isnt tv viewing about consistency and the habitual tendencies of the couch potato? Why am I supposed to make an effort to know that my thurs show is on sunday? fucking bullshit.

Restaurant tipping
 

Wait a second. You get paid for the time you spend here? I don't care how little it is, that's a windfall.

TM

Restaurant tipping
 

Argh, yes, this annoys the pants off of me.

I have one friend who (i) is vegan and (ii) likes good wine. When calculating her share of the tab, she invariably (a) insists that we just split the whole tab, since "everyone pays their own" never works, (b) excludes from the total all items including meat or dairy, and sometimes other stuff that she doesn't like much, because she couldn't share those, (c) excludes all drinks that anyone ordered other than the wine, which she orders "for the table," even when dinning with Mormons, (d) divides by the total number of people, (e) pays that + 15% and (f) calculates everyone else's share by dividing the remainder by the total number - 1 and adding 15%. I never, never go out with her other than 1 on 1 anymore (where I can force a "pay your own" policy). I'm pretty liberal with the "buy a round, cover the bill, someone will catch you up later" thing. I can take abuse of the system by reason of poverty, bad luck, any number of reasons. But I CANNOT tolerate abuse in the guise of assuring "fairness."

The only way to deal with these vultures is to cut them off - either mandate before the shindig that the bill is being split straight, or stop socializing with them in groups where it can be split.

Restaurant tipping
 

I should be so lucky to get paid for working with the asses of horses and the crap that seeps from the holes.



ThrashersFan

Restaurant tipping
 

How can she began to rationalize a step (b), (let alone steps c, d, and e), in light of step a?

Either you pay your own or you split evenly. Did she miss B_R_C training day?

Restaurant tipping
 

I'll give you a dollar to either shorten the length of most of your posts or break your posts up from one long paragraph of repetitive rant to lots of smaller ones.

TM

survivor and 90210
 

Jesus, don't even get me started on programmers. I don't follow much that's on TV, but I can still rant a good long time about (i) moving Angel all over hell and gone, from Tuesday to Sunday to Monday to Wednesday and whatever, and (ii) the whole "stop and start" shit with series - I mean, just pick a time and run the fuckers through solid, don't run the first 5, then 4 weeks of reruns of the first 4, then run 3, then rerun those 3 (whoops, where's no. 5? dunno), etc. Drives me fucking bonkers.

I need a TiVo. Bad. (Baaaad.)

Restaurant tipping
 

You say this as if it's a systemic problem. Is it? If so, is bad service specific to restaurants, or services there generally?

I have never been, but am looking for an analogue to Hawaii (which is fantastic, but from the East Coast is simply too freakin' far away.) That leaves the Bahamas, Virgin Islands, etc. From what I gather, the Bahamas is a mixed bag.

Restaurant tipping
 

You need work on your idea of aversion training.

I keep running into the types who order the shrimp-encrusted steak with salmon-and-crab side meals and the three glasses of the Chateau Lafette Effete '63 and then announce, at the end, that "we'll just split". Yeah, effin right we will. I just give them a pitying look, and say "damn, that's a good idea - you should have announced that before we ordered!", and then put my calculated share on the table next to them. If they persevere, only then do I point out that it's never the salad-and-a-roll people who suggest a split.

You can't let other people shame you into paying their way simply because you are too nice to call an ass an ass. That's the asses' greatest weapon.

Survivor
 

Paigow,
You really should get yourself a Tivo, or Replay or whatever the fuck they're pushing this month. It really takes the thinking out of recording shows. Just hit Survivor - season's pass, and it records every episode automatically. That being said, what really pissed me off is that the actual votes were counted on Suvivor - the reunion. So Tivo wasn't smart enough to figure that out - fortunately I was home at the time and caught the error.
And speaking from recent experience (having watched 3 episodes of Survivor last night since MSNBC ruined the end for me) I can tell you that they plugged the shit out of the 2 HOUR SPECIAL SEASON FINALE ON SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY. You must have scanned through the commercials too quickly - or left the room like some of us do during live TV.

Restaurant tipping
 

This is another reason why I have no friends -- I would tell her to shove her pencil up her ass and suck it up and pay equally or go sit somewhere else. I mean, barring the situation where a person goes off the wall and orders lobster when everyone else is having salad you split the damn bill evenly or else take turns treating -- by the time you stop hanging with this person or die (or both) things will even out.

Of course this only explains why I don't want to be friends with people, not why they don't want to be friends with me.

ThrashersFan

Restaurant tipping
 

Show me the dollar first.

Restaurant tipping
 

My group has that friend who: (1) always seems to show up at gatherings/cookouts/etc right when the food preparation/booze buying has ended, (2) "half-cabs", i.e., gets in the taxi with you when the place he's going is on the way to place you're going and offers no money, giving the "well, you were going this way anyway" excuse a la George Costanza, (3) always stiffs us on the bill ("I only had two beers!" - fuck you).

I've bitch-slapped once for getting angry at me for saying he owed at least $20 more. He paid (I'm normally not violent, but I'd had enough).

Behind his back, we refer to his BMW and his new loft in the West Loop as OUR BMW and OUR loft, since we've basically paid for them via all of the money he's saved by fucking us over...

Restaurant tipping
 

Good fucking question. You see why we're so infuriated. But even if we force her to agree we all pay our own way, she still tries to justify subsidized wine on the grounds that "that was for the table," despite all evidence to the contrary.

BR(even more annoying because she likes California cabs with all the subtlety of a stiffie in loose trousers, and I am a Burgundy girl)C

Restaurant tipping
 

The Bahamas is a paltry sub. for Hawaii. The bad service was particularly notable in restaurants, as E/O said, you would just wait and wait and wait some more (and the food for the most part wasn't great). I also noticed that the hotel bartenders and concierge/front desk staff were not as helpful/swift as I would have liked, but the cab drivers were good, FWIW.

Also, we didn't have an opportunity for good snorkeling/diving, and we went in the winter and the water wasn't as warm as I would have liked. Next time I'll try the Virgin Islands, or Costa Rica when I have time for a longer trip.

Restaurant tipping
 

Try St. Johns or St. Barts.

Restaurant tipping
 

http://www.easynewyorkcity.com/dollarone.gif

TM

Restaurant tipping
 

I have the best luck in that part of the world when I can tip most frequently, i.e., never run a tab, but pay and tip with each drink, give the waitron five bucks as you sit down "for the nice table", etc. Resentment of the rich American waxes and wanes, but the feel of the bill in the hand seems to overcome at least the more obvious affects of it.

Restaurant tipping
 

I love the Bahamas and I highly recommend it.

What you must remember about the Bahamas is that the pace of everything is very slow there, so you have to recalibrate your service expectations.

Service improves tremendously when you visit native restaurants rather than those geared specifically to tourists, but no matter what it will be slower than you are normally accustomed to in the states.

Restaurant tipping
 

I totally agree with RP, the Bahamas is a weak substitute for Hawaii - where they actually like tourists and our money. The Bahamians simply were there - they have protected jobs and automatic tips - no incentive to earn anything. And you'll never get a second cup of lousy tasting coffee from anyone, ever! When I was there, the water was filtered not purified, so anything with ice or water tasted salty - even the shower water was salty. Of course I didn't stay in a swanky hotel, but I didn't stay in a dump either. Hawaii is just so much more friendly.

edited to fix code e/o

Restaurant tipping
 

POTD.

Survivor
 

So this is another reason to get Tivo? Is it worth the six hundred bucks? I am still a little conflicted about spending that much on something that is not good for the mind of body. But I do love chocolate chip cookies and they arent good for that either.

anyway,. i do leave the room during commercials or talk on phone or someting. so i didnt know. and assuming I am not the only person in the world who does this, how does CBS think its ratings would be better on Sunday than Thursday? Is it bc all the youngsters go out partying on Thurs nights? even so, you would think they would watch the finale if they were into it.

and speaking of TV< I found the greatest TV show ever. "What not to wear" on BBC *(which is quickly becoming my favorite network). I saw only one episode and these two british chippies were making over this size 18 whose hair looked "smeared on " The makeover chick wasnt just going into it blindly, she suffered tons of humiliation and bitched that the skinny chicks didnt understand what it was to be her size. And the british harpies were heaping praise on a skirt that had folds so that you didnt know if it was the material or that "wobbly naughty fat" that accounted for the bigness. There was another adjective in there but I cant remember it but it was funny. Definite recommendd FB viewing. Dont ask me when its on- i just stumbled across it when it was raining and I needed a nap./

Restaurant tipping
 

Lucky for me that I stopped doing things for a dollar when I finished paying off those lawschool loans.

Restaurant tipping
 

Short of never eating with her again, order yourself a glass of wine before she orders the bottle. When she suggests a bottle, point to your glass, and demur, suggesting she order some classy california cab. for herself. Then order three more glasses for yourself to get through the rest of the meal with the bitch.

Restaurant tipping
 

This is the perfect answer. Miss Manners smiles upon you in her benevolence. Less perfect, but "I'm afraid just I can't do that - I ordered according to my means" gets across the same message, really, with a usefully curtailing statement of impossibility, but without directly saying anything about what THEY are doing.

Ah, the benefits of learning to just say "no, thank you" and repeating it until the offender gives up. Absolutely.

Survivor
 

You missed a marathon of WNTW yesterday. BBC America is great. You have to start watching Graham Norton (he is so cheeky) and all the Britcoms. I got hooked years ago and simply cannot live without Ground Force, Ab Fab, Are you Being Served?, etc. Try it one day, you will love them all.

survivor and 90210
 

For a drama, there are generally 22 episodes in a season, which generally runs from mid/late September until mid/late May (about 40 weeks). There are three advertising sweeps periods in that season, November, February and May. Usually, the network wants to build up a show right before sweeps so people are compelled to watch, so they bunch up good episodes around those periods. The filler episodes tend to be scattered around the rest of the season, and the rest is filled with reruns. Then, of course, all the "specials" air during sweeps, so things that may not get as high ratings get moved around for something else.

Survivor
 

I have a seasons pass for Survivor and my tivo automatically recorded the reunion special for me. Your tivo must hate you. Did you make it record porn or something that might have offended it? (tivos have very delicate sensibilities -- when I got a seasons pass for Mr Personality, it punished me by recording every episode of Ex-treme dating for weeks).

Bahamas
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Gattigap
You say this as if it's a systemic problem. Is it? If so, is bad service specific to restaurants, or services there generally?

I have never been, but am looking for an analogue to Hawaii (which is fantastic, but from the East Coast is simply too freakin' far away.) That leaves the Bahamas, Virgin Islands, etc. From what I gather, the Bahamas is a mixed bag.
____________________________________________


Whether or not you'll like the Bahamas depends on what you are looking for. Service was horrendous - we waited 20 minutes to be checked into our cabana while the desk clerk talked on a personal phone call and gave us dirty looks. Had similar experiences at restaurants, etc. The finale was when we were waiting at the airport only to be told that the airline (a big one that is currently coming out of bankruptcy) realized that it didn't have enough fuel to get to our location and then back to Fla. We then had to retrieve our luggage from the runway pile six people per cab for an hour long ride, etc.

However, the snorkeling, etc., is much better than the Virgin Islands.

Here's a Shocker
 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,86625,00.html

Spree: Looks like JFK had his very own Monica -- a 19 year old intern who apparently had no job other than to provide sexual release to the Jackster. Oh yeah, there is belief that she knew how to answer a phone but uncertainty as to whether or not that skill was ever utilized.

Survivor
 

I love that show too. It's on Tuesdays at 10:00 and rerun on Sat and Sun mornings. I think they give good advice. They have a book coming out (in August). There is a US version on TLC that is just terrible (the hosts). They try to be like those two chicks and can't really pull it off.

One show I am rapidly becoming a fan of is Coupling, also on BBC america. And today I read in the WSJ that there is soon going to be a US version of it. I hope that they can duplicate it, because that is one funny show.

The one show I think that the Americans did a much better job of than the British is Sanford and Son. The UK one is not nearly as funny as the US one. But that is about the only one I can think of. And I suppose they did a very good job with Three's Company, but I don't think it is actually funnier than the UK version.

What Not to Wear
 

I don't get BBC America (because my town is still pissed off at the Brits for oppressing us in pre-Revolutionary America apparently) so am only getting the American ripoff What Not to Wear. One of the hosts has no business criticizing anyone else though because he has long gray-brown Fabio locks and a goatee and dresses in the same rugby shirts he wore in college in 1983, except they sometimes are a solid color with a fabric-tape cross sewn on the front.

Yesterday's, where they tried to teach a South Beach bimbo not to dress like Christina Aguilera and to wear a bra so her giant boobs wouldn't heave up and knock her in the head when she danced, was hilarious. She still spent a significant amount of her $5000 windfall on ho-wear but did manage a couple of items that were merely quasi-ho and about one outfit that made it all the way up to "classy."

Here's a Shocker
 

"I like the fact that the source of this information is someone's oral history," said Kafka with a lookingformarket-esque one-liner.