Re: Madness
 

Which is why they should make clear at the outset that there are in fact two races, one for "elites" and one for recreation, with prizes/trophies only for the former. The solution is to award another trophy for "first place-recreational division" (or something), because there's no way to figure out which of the two effects you identified meant more.

Re: Madness
 

It's a race. It's not an individual time trial.


There isn't much "coping with the crowd" in the corral directly behind the elites. Everyone is pretty fast, and it's not that crowded.

Again, it's unfair, but she probably should have requested elite status. That's what I would have done had I been in her situation.

Re: Madness
 

Then why not just call it two separate races? Because that's what you're saying it is. One race for the elites and another for everyone else.

But if it is to be considered one race and you slow up because you're beating the small elite field and assume no one else can touch you, you deserve to lose if someone else runs a better race.

This woman ran her best race ever. The question is, would you rather allow everyone within 15 minutes of the slowest elite race time be automatically put in the elite corral, just in case? It's a race. Whoever runs it faster wins. If you ignore the possibility that a sub-standard time will be beaten by a non-elite runner, you should lose. Why should you be rewarded for easing up and taking that risk?

TM

Re: Madness
 

Apparently it wasn't a race, but two races, and only one set of runners were allowed to win. But -- speaking of fairness -- organizers didn't tell anyone that in advance.

eta: Maybe it was an Ecclesiastes thing, since the race wasn't to the swift.

Re: Madness
 

I agree it's unfair to her, but I also think that, since she is a very fast and experienced runner, it was partially her fault for not attempting to obtain elite status. I base that belief on what I think a reasonable (very) experienced runner should know and not know. She is a better runner than I am, and I would know to request elite status if I were that fast.

Re: Madness
 

She also beat her best time ever by 12 minutes. From the article, she seemed like she had no clue that she'd end up running that fast. And if her preconceived notion of elite was 2:40 ish, and she tended to run around 3:10 in the past, it makes perfect sense that she wouldn't sign up for the elite status.

Re: Madness
 

The women's "B" qualifiying time for the Olympic Trials is 2:47. Her goal was to run sub-3, less than 13 minutes off that qualifying time. She is running a race that has no true elites. Anyone who is that fast should know that she had a chance of placing. Again, I agree that she should be declared the winner, but I also believe that she is partially to blame for being so naive.

If my best time is 2:42 (20 minutes slower than the men's "B" Olympic Time Trial Qualifying time), and I'm running in a non-major marathon, I am calling to ask for elite status.

Re: Madness
 

If you said above that she should be declared the winner, I missed it -- sorry.

Re: Madness
 

I didn't say it (until just then). My point is that I understand the race's reasoning for not declaring her the winner. It's not without merit.

Re: Madness
 

I understand why the race adopted the structure that they adopted. But I expect that it didn't even occur to whomever was looking at the results that s/he should look at the non-elite results, too, and so they simply missed her time. And then, when the mistake was pointed out, they covered their asses instead of admitting a mistake. They didn't want to have to try to get the trophies back from the "winners." I can't believe it wasn't as simple as that. The result is post hoc rationalization.

Re: Madness
 

most of the real elite races* pay appearance fees, and have people showing up who run for a living. if they gave the first place to someone who didn't really race against the top names, they won't be seeing the top names running there next year.

the woman had an advantage of having a rabbit for her to catch just ahead of her the whole 26 miles, since there was a pack that had started earlier. the elites had to push themselves. the built in motivation of people ahead of you the whole race, and that you can catch is huge.

*as coltrane says that may not apply to this race, but it may well take it's rules from the standards.

Annoyances
 

I went on one date with this guy two summers ago. Unfortunately, he still has my email address and every time he participates in some charity run/walk thingie, I get an email from him asking me to sponsor him.

Yeah right, I'm going to give my money away to some dweeb whom I didn't even have sex with two summers ago. arghh.

Re: Annoyances
 

change your junk mail settings so that emails from that address go straight to junk.

Re: Annoyances
 

What's going on with Adder's dumping of that chick?

Re: Annoyances
 

A simple email asking me to remove you from my distribution list would have sufficed.

Bitch.

Re: Annoyances
 

Please. If you participated in a single charity run, that would be the end of the emails.

Re: Annoyances
 

He will after the next booty call.

Re: Annoyances
 

Is that going to be a recurring answer? Sigh. He could at least agonize about it for our amusement.

Re: Annoyances
 

Of course it will--the description has friend with benefits written all over it, with the added downside of its being a coworker. Adder needs to find himself a new love interest at least for the short term to extract himself from the situation.

Re: Annoyances
 

Is it tax deductable? If so, that's better then the sex!

eta: if all the gals who didn't given it up for me, also resulted in tax deductions years down the road, I'd be wealthy enough to retire from the hellholle of law.

Re: Annoyances
 

Thus far, I am trying the fizzle approach. Although as I may attempt to pursue something with someone else, it may have to become more affirmative just out of general decency to both.

Re: Annoyances
 

Friends with benefits wouldn't be all bad, and maybe is basically what has been going on for the last few months. But my concern is that she will start or has started taking it more seriously, while I am actually moving in the opposite direction. Unfortunately, I really can't tell.

She spent the night on Saturday, which led me to spend a fairly sleepless night pondering how to break up. I suck at dating.

Re: Annoyances
 

Wasn't Saturday after you posed the question?

And, Burger, what's wrong with FWB?

Re: Annoyances
 

Nothing, unless you're not happy with the arrangement.

Re: Annoyances
 

I think he's almost more neuroticker than I am. Whee!

Re: Annoyances
 

Yup. And yet I have still not done any affirmative breaking up.

Instead of breaking up I wish that we could be making up again.
 

Do you prefer the slow or fast version?

(Not Bob says "slow, baby.")

Re: Madness
 

They started the "elites" 20 minutes before the rest. 10 minutes would have prevented this because the winner (yes, she won) would have caught the lead pack and been noticed.

Re: Annoyances
 

It's a delicate thing, if it's not all explicitly FWB. I don't envy you. OTOH, you're getting laid, and nothing that can happen in connection with this is going to be lastingly damaging or anything. At worst, she hates you and trashes you to all her friends. But if she does that, she's crazy, so it doesn't matter. If she's relatively normal, there shouldn't be an inordinate amount of drama.

Though it seems like there is a largish subgroup of people for whom anyone they once had any kind of romantic/sexual relationship is an asshole/bitch after the relationship ends. But if that's the case, you were in a no-win.

Re: Annoyances
 

From the sound of it, she isn't that into him (I have never told someone that I'd like to be single for a while unless I have written off any sort of serious connection). Adder, don't keep yourself up at night. You seem not to be a person who is capable of FWB. Cut the cord. If you want to, remind her of that period when she wanted to be single. Heck, if you are not a breaker-upper, just annoy her in the ways that you must have when she made the single comment and maybe she'll initiate the break-up again.

Re: Annoyances
 

it cuts into your credibility to call my posts crazed one day, then post the Reader's Digest version of them the next.

Re: Madness
 

so. They wouldn't have noticed early enough to make up 10 minutes. how many marathons all you guys with opinions have under your belts?

Re: Annoyances
 

I want to maximize the on-board agonizing.

Re: Annoyances
 

translation: Come to think of it, Hank never really broke up with me.

Re: Annoyances
 

Does that mean we are still sleeping together?

Re: Annoyances
 

from what i can tell about him over the internet, if this isn't happening organically without him trying, she has high tolerance level. no offense adder.

Re: Annoyances
 

of course, my love. whenever it makes sense for both of us.

Re: Annoyances
 

Christ, man. If you're thinking this much about getting laid it's a miracle you're getting laid at all. Get it over with and marry the girl. Who knows when the Sex Faery's going to gift you again?

It's a bad economy. This is no time to be looking gift horses of any kind in the mouth.

Re: Annoyances
 

Do that thing that turns her off in bed. You know... talking.

Re: Annoyances
 

Underlying all of this, allegedly, is her difficultly getting over a serious relationship with her ex. The "needing to be single" thing was actually several months ago, and was followed by all of a few days of not seeing her before she reached out to me again. My main reaction to it was surprise that I wasn't really upset and it has been awhile since I initiated anything.

But you guys are probably right, and my anxiety is probably misplaced. I just worry that she is taking things more seriously when the conversation turns more emotional/intimate, but that is probably just because those topics make me uncomfortable in general so if I was her I wouldn't bring them up casually. That probably isn't true of her.

To some degree this is also driven by some interest in a friend who recently moved back into town. Oddly enough, she actually asked me why I never dated this friend (which is a long story of its own).

I have really only done FWB once in that past, which didn't end all that well after she started to take it more seriously, which probably colors my reactions here.