LawTalkers - I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

Let's just recap this exchange, because it's illustrative of how you are being a jackass.

I posted something about how the Republicans have kept people, especially blacks, from voting.

You glibly suggested it didn't matter.

TM told you, fairly enough, to go fuck yourself.

You linked to something worth reading, but not relating in any way to voter suppression.

Hey, the HuffPo article you linked to is interesting in its own right, and worth a discussion, but you're not going to get it by being such a dick.

The link I offered addressed the issue. It wasn't about suppression. It was about jobs, jobs, and more jobs. Or more accurately, the lack of them.

You don't want to hear that.

sebastian_dangerfield

11-10-2016 01:19 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 503673)

Just for the record, I wasn't drinking and I couldn't see your face, but you got at least part of my meaning. You were pissing me off, most immediately because when I respond to something you say you change your tune. Either Hillary Clinton is particularly corrupt or all politicians are corrupt -- you say things without seeming to care what you mean. Which, I suppose, is symptomatic, because the underlying issue is that I care about what happened this week, maybe too much, and you are at least pretending not to.

If you are going to mock me for spraying blame in all directions but inwards, then you haven't been reading what I've been posting. Which was the point in the preceding paragraph. Actually, it's pretty plain that you haven't been reading, because the only person I called a "mark" was you, and wasn't for the way you voting, but for your mindless repetition of alt-right talking points that you can't be bothered to defend.

Elections are big, complex affairs, and there is plenty of blame to go around. I blame, in no particular order

- Anyone who voted for Trump
- My cousins who call Obama "Kenya"
- Anyone who pretends to be a libertarian and who voted for Johnson instead of against Trump, especially in a state where it might have made a difference
- Anyone who voted for Jill Stein
- Anyone who didn't vote
- Anyone who wouldn't vote for Hillary because Bill cheated on her
- Republicans, for many things which paved the way for Trump
- Obama, for not finding a way to make Republicans pay for their obstruction, and for failing to build institutions around his desire for change
- the Democratic Party, for all sorts of failures
- Hillary, though I suspect she did her best
- the media, for its promotion and normalization of Trump, and for the many fake scandals that dominated its coverage of Hillary
- Justice Roberts and the other conservatives on the Supreme Court, for getting rid of key parts of the Voting Rights Act, paving the way for Republican legislatures to make it harder for people, especially Democrats, to vote
- James Comey, for selfishly injecting himself into the presidential race
- the Electoral College, for handing the Presidency to an incompetent Republican who did not win the popular vote the second time in sixteen years
- myself, for not having done more
- many more, I'm sure

"Blame is useless"? Only if you don't give a shit. I do. And you actually do too, which is why your schtick is so irritating this week.

Where in this list is "lack of jobs" which hasn't been addressed by either party? Kind of a big omission, no?

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm being a dick again... It's under "the Democratic party, for all sorts of failures" and the numerous references to GOP malfeasance.

Tyrone Slothrop

11-10-2016 01:19 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503675)

What do I give a shit about here?

An hour ago, you said

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503655)

Of course she's preferable on climate change. And he's an idiot on that issue.

You obviously give a shit, except when you're pretending not to, which is often.

Tyrone Slothrop

11-10-2016 01:20 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503681)

Where in this list is "lack of jobs" which hasn't been addressed by either party? Kind of a big omission, no?

It's a list of people I blame, not problems to solve. That one is even longer.

ThurgreedMarshall

11-10-2016 01:25 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503680)

The link I offered addressed the issue. It wasn't about suppression. It was about jobs, jobs, and more jobs. Or more accurately, the lack of them.

You don't want to hear that.

What you don't want to hear is anything else. Fifty people have told you a thousand times that the outcome isn't the result of any one thing. Your smug dismissal of any topic that doesn't confirm your limited outlook is fucking infuriating. You have proven time and again that you don't want to have a discussion.

Pointing out voter suppression doesn't mean that it is the dispositive issue in this election. Pointing it out means it may have contributed. The fact that it's growing and will be a bigger issue going forward is not something to be shooed away because you don't give a fuck about minorities' rights or that you don't give a fuck about anything.

TM

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

11-10-2016 01:50 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by soup sandwich (Post 503668)

And this is where I get frustrated. Why don't they move? Go to North Dakota and work for a shale oil extractor. Go to Vegas and deal blackjack. Go to California and work in a field picking strawberries. Go somewhere and do something instead of just sitting around vaping and breeding and waiting for the government to save you.

"There's nothing for me in this town, but I am going to stay anyway" makes no sense to me.

Look, many of us have moved. But a lot of the people I know who stuck around the dead-end all white town I grew up in had good reasons to stay - a sick parent or sibling, a family business or farm, etc.

Not Bob

11-10-2016 02:18 PM

There's no one there I really wanted to talk to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 503649)

Who wants to start a new oldskool polling company?

I'm in. First we have to get Ma Bell to reinstall landlines and eliminate caller-ID.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

11-10-2016 02:59 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 503684)

I admire the way you keep going at this TM. Power to you.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

11-10-2016 03:00 PM

Re: There's no one there I really wanted to talk to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Bob (Post 503686)

I'm in. First we have to get Ma Bell to reinstall landlines and eliminate caller-ID.

Great. Sebby is going to take that on.

ThurgreedMarshall

11-10-2016 03:37 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 503662)

That was a good article. You should reread it.

It wasn't terrible. Stating that speaking to people in areas which consist of defunct industries as if they are adults (eg., the jobs at the coal mine or steel mill are fucking gone, let's examine what's next) is a huge mistake (or better yet, outright neglect) as opposed to having a billionaire who actually moved jobs the fuck out of this country, screwed over small businesses as part of his business strategy, make empty promises of a way back to when coal mines and steel mills dominate the town was the right move, may have been a losing strategy, but what the fuck?

Also, this idea that Democrats just accepted the obsolescence of unions when Republicans worked very hard to destroy them is ridiculous.

But there were some good points.

Now read this: http://www.economist.com/news/united...inee-trump-and

TM

sebastian_dangerfield

11-10-2016 03:53 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThurgreedMarshall (Post 503689)

The study appears rigorous, the source is unimpeachable. I'd be interested to see a bigger one assessing a few more potential common threads of Trump fans. But the emergence of racial resentment as the sole binding sentiment among those examined is undeniable proof of its significance in this "movement."

taxwonk

11-10-2016 04:04 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 503546)

The "Bernie woulda won"s are just a little too much this morning. I don't have the energy and I'm sleep deprived.

Bernie wouldn't have won. But I'm beginning to wonder if we deserved to. Everywhere I looked on the news last night and this morning, I saw the kind of behavior that had me scared as hell of Trump winning. Riots in thee streets. I wanted to puke. Liberals turning into the kind of lawless yahoos that swept Trump to victory. If Trump's real campaign slogan was "Making America White Again" (and it was), the Democrats' reaction is Resurrect the Weather Underground.

Every single person in America of voting age is guilty of putting us into the shit show we now find ourselves in. Democrats are burning and looting like the rule of law, something we were so fucking sanctimonious about, means nothing. Republicans who one by one tried to distance themselves from President Pussygrab are sniffing at his tail like eager puppies.

We have four years of deconstructing America to dread because neither party could manage to get enough people interested enough to put up a candidate who was both electable and not psychotic. So instead, we got Hillary, who most people in America just plain [I]didn't trust[I] and the poster child for bad behavior by someone with the mentality of a schoolyard bully.

Yes, Hillary had some good policies, plans, and experience. But most of America neither liked nor trusted her. And yes, Trump is a racist, sexist, ball of unchecked white privilege. But he gave all the people who used to have to hide in country clubs and dive bars permission to spew their hate in the streets.

After seeing Democrats stopping traffic in LA and Chicago and burning and looting in New York and New Orleans, it's clear that we really aren't all that much better than them.

Note that I'm not accusing anybody on this board of behaving like animals. I'm just observing that we are lying with the same dogs as the Republicans and we have apparently picked up the same fleas.

Stevenson was right. In a democracy, people pretty much get the government they deserve. Maybe instead of pissing and moaning, or thinking we're any better than anyone else, all of us can actually step it up, put what we stand for in our day, every day, and demand politicians do the same, or run them off before they get on the ballot in the first place.

I blame myself.

Adder

11-10-2016 04:04 PM

Re: I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused.

Adam Serwer on whether we're headed for a second Redemption. Read the whole thing, but this bit is for Sebby:

Quote:

Democrats now face a renewed white-identity politics whose appeal will be immensely difficult to neutralize, and the notion that a more vigorous, left wing economics will return the white working class to the Democratic fold is likely a fantasy. The last Democrat to come close to winning the white vote was Bill Clinton, who combined his economic populism with promises to “end welfare as we know it” and advertised his willingness to use state violence against black Americans, turning the execution of Ricky Ray Rector to his political advantage.

Icky Thump

11-10-2016 04:06 PM

Day 1

Murica. Trump.
https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656

In retrospect we were stupid. Of course Bernie would've had a shot against Trump. The guy (or gal) who wins is the one with the best message, regardless of whether the items can be put into effect:

Trump Message: You're all gonna get jobs, we're gonna kick out the mexicans take our country back and make everything great.

Bernie Message: Everyone is getting free college, free healthcare

Bubba might have bought into the 2d message.

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