Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

And bruised. I finally stopped playing competitive co-ed basketball for that reason. I'm still hanging in there in other sports.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Wrong. He says he doesn't think her playing is a good idea and has withdrawn (not because she's playing). That's about as far from "bring it on" as it gets.

TM

Buffy
 

I've never watched this show, but I'll guess that it involves heavy drug use, yes?

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

I am very curious to see how well she does.

But to the golfers playing, it would be pretty annoying to be paired with her and subjected to the media circus that will be following her around the course. I thought this was Vijay's major concern. He's just pissed at the hype. To him it's just ridiculous that people think she can compete with the men.

I think the consensus from the male players is that they hope she plays the round of her life, and still misses the cut. That way this issue gets laid to rest for good.


Some time ago, late 80s/early 90s, Navratilova played Jimmy Connors at some "made-up" event. Connors was allowed only one serve, and half of the doubles line was considered in play on his side of the court. Connors destroyed her. This is the only man vs. woman tennis match I know of where the players were similar in age.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Whether she plays well or not, I don't see the parade of horribles you do, Atticus. First of all, I really don't think her participation in this one event is going to open up the floodgates for women competing in PGA events. Second, I'm not sure that you can say that at least in comparison to the PGA, that the LPGA isn't already viewed in terms of being a "lesser league". Do any of the "major networks" televise women's tournaments? No. Are the purses as large, as a rule? No. So, I don't think this argument holds water. Finally, regardless of how you view the LPGA in terms of status, playing as a professional on the LPGA is nonetheless a hell of a nice way to make a living, if you're skilled enough. I don't think those women who love the game are going to be discouraged from playing at all. Who wouldn't want to be a pro athlete if they could. The mistake is in thinking that these women are somehow not pros.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Suzy Whaley is the golfer who qualified for the Canon Greater Hartford Open. Story here.

AI Article from Salon
 

Ruben is boring bc he started off amazing and has not had to improve or stand in front of a mirror lip synching while trying not to make facial contortions? Reminds me of something I recently read about Serena Williams. She made winning all four Grand Slam titles look easy.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Not true. She won the qualifier by playing tees about 10% closer to the hole. For the Greater Hartford Open, she will play from the same tees as the men.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Golf is not only strength, it is strategy, skill, and dare I say finesse. The best golfers are not always the longest hitters. I might agree if this were football, basketball, baseball or hockey, but golf is a non-contact sport, (except for those few times when I was in college and my buddies and I would get really drunk and play, but that's another story entirely.) I recognize the biological differences, but in this case, they're largely irrelevant. Let me ask you this. Who stands a better chance of doing well in a PGA event, Annika or Bill Murray? And don't imply that I'm PC. I'm offended. You've read plenty of my posts and should know better. Take it back, right now, hobbit! I just fail to see where this is going to cause the earth to tilt off it's axis, that's all.

spookyfish

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Alveslohe, Germany -- Tiger Woods not only thinks Annika Sorenstam should play next week's Colonial, he believes she needs several chances to prove she can compete with the men.

"I think it will be more fair to her if she could play four or five tournaments -- then you could judge on those results," Woods said Wednesday before playing in the Deutsche Bank Open. "I'm sure if she did play four or five, she'd get on a roll ... In one tournament a lot could go wrong for her."

Edited to put in this link so y'all don't think I am making it up.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...3/14tiger.html

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Wrong. http://ydr.com/story/salter/4259 ["she played from forward tees and played 10 percent less of the course than did her male competitors."] But I agree that she deserves to play more than Sorenstam. She qualified for the tournament under the PGA's rules.

TM

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

My bad. Should have read the article before I posted it. Never heard anything about her playing a shorter course than the men. That doesn't seem right, especially since it's only a 10% difference.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

The difference for Serena and other top female tennis players is that now, even though they are not competing against the men, they are competing in the same big tournaments. If the men's and women's tours didn't converge at the Grand Slams women's tennis would never be as visible as men's.

Serena doesn't have to prove she can play as well as the men because she gets to kick ass on Center Court and in Arthur Ashe stadium and do it in front of essentially the same audience that will watch the men's match the next day. It wouldn't be the same if Women's Wimbledon were an entirely separate competition that took place at another time. If the only way Serena could show her talent to a wider audience were to compete against men, she would probably want to do it however much it would suck.

As you suggest, that's the essential unfairness of Sorenstam's position. She can't be just like Serena because she cannot compete against women in the same arena as the men.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

There's a world of difference hitting an 8-iron into a green from 160 yards, and hitting a 6-iron from the same distance. The tee box is not the only place on the course where being able to hit it farther is an advantage.

No one disputes that Annika is better than an average golfer like Bill Murray.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

I don't think this will merge male/female sports anymore than the Billy Jean King/Bobby Riggs match did. She kicked his ass (old and over the hill tho it was), no one was shouting for women to play men in Wimbledon.
I don't see the harm here - she's in under a sponsor's exemption, not a novel concept and isn't taking a qualifying man's place anymore than a man playing under a sponsor exemption. If that's an issue, get rid of the sponsors exemption overall, it won't happen again.
It will be interesting to see how she does - noone - including her, believes she is going to win, but I believe most of the clamoring is on behalf of the lower portion of the field that will be beaten by her, thus embarassing a percentage of male pro golfers.
I also don't see the harm to the LPGA - if she doesn't do well it may affirm the thoughts of those that say women can't play golf - but they weren't supporters of the LPGA to begin with.
I can' quite figure out why there is such a panic over this.

Tiger's view
 

this was alluded to in another post, but here's a link to the article where Tiger gives his opinion about Annika playing with the boys:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/913443.asp

In short, he thinks she should get a chance.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

You've just exposed your signficant lack of knowledge of the game.

As a general matter, golf is a game of skill and not muscle strength in the way most people think of strength (football, basketball, etc.). But male golfers are strong in ways that female golfers are not. Sorenstam drives the ball quite well for a woman. She may even outdrive some of the (much) smaller men. But I guarantee she will be at least 20-30 yards behind her playing partner on every driving hole at this event. And she can't hit her irons as far either. This will mean that she can never reach a par 5 in two and that she will be trying to land on small, fast greens with 2 and 3 irons on par 4s. I'm sure you know that the higher the number on the iron, the higher the ball flight and the more accurate the shot. Whoever she plays with will be hitting an 8 iron into a green and stopping it on a dime. She'll be lucky to hold the green. The differences are MAJOR.

TM

Tiger's view
 

Tiger's right, although he's still a big fucking dork...

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Edited to delete duplicate post.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

He must be back peddling although, I may have overstated what he said earlier since it was from memory. Here's the quote I'm referring to: "She also brushed off comments by Tiger Woods that a bad showing would set back women's golf."

TM

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

What, is there a fucking echo in here or somehting?

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Certainly, but your point is somewhat weakened by the fact that she is admittedly one of the very few women who can (partially) compete with the men in this event.

"Imply"? I thought I was pretty direct! When I want to imply something, bucko, well, you'll know it!

My point is, our desire to build a more fair world notwithstanding, bios trumps ethos, and any attempt to artifically insist on "equality" in large-muscle-group performance is only bound to hurt women more than help them.

Now, if they would play nude, . . .

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

We'll see. Not everyone can hit the green every single time doofus. The skill in the game comes from consistency, and if she's consistent with HER game - she'll do fine. Case in point - my husband drives the ball about twice as far as I do - 150 yds off the tee is a great day for me. And yet, he has NEVER beaten me. His short game sucks.
No one is expecting her to win - just to make a good showing. You can bet that the guys in the middle of the pack will be watching HER score the whole way - that's additional pressure she won't have.

Mr. P
 

Being a vet of 2 game shows, I really doubt it. There are federal laws re tampering with game show outcomes that have game show producers scared shitless. (By the way, did anyone see that special on the folks who cheated on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?). I don't think that there'd be any blatant tampering going on like NCS suggests. That said, I think there's TONS of subtle tampering on all reality shows. On viewer-vote shows, I think the editing steers the audience to vote for the producer's choice (aka the Julia DiMato incident). On shows like Bachelor, they can send one couple on a date to rainy Phoenix, and another to Hawaii. Oops, well maybe that's not such a good example. But y'all know what I'm saying.

Tiger's view
 

On a call-in radio show this morning in which almost all of the callers were of a delusional "wouldn't it be cool if she beat Tiger" mentality, someone claimed to know that Woods and Sorenstam are friends and have played informally. In fact (according to this caller, so huge grain of salt), Woods, Sorenstam and Carl Pavano recently played a round. Sorenstam finished third.

(When he isn't golfing, Pavano pitches for the Florida Marlins.)

In fairness, I can't find any confirmation of this anywhere on the net.

Tiger's view
 

I've heard that John Smoltz beat her as well, although he's a scratch golfer (but nonetheless a MLB pitcher and not a pro golfer).

Tiger's view
 

Typical sports talk radio. I heard the same story, but with John Smoltz as the golfing pitcher.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

I know you're totally kidding, but that comment is just asking for trouble.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

I think this is a good point. But your argument essentially is, people aren't as interested in women's sports as they are in men's and the only reason why Serena and women's tennis is so successful is because it is completely linked to men's sports. Therefore, Sorenstam needs to identify herself with men (or the best because in this case the two are interchangeable) in order to achieve similar success.

I think this is unhealthy. I think that she should continue to dominate against women and the LPGA and everyone else should look into why women's sports and women's golf (in specific) isn't as popular. Maybe the answer is as simple as, "people want to watch the best." But I don't think that's true because I would rather watch women's tennis than men's any day. So what is it?

TM

Mr. P
 

I think I may know who you are.












Dick Gautier?

AI Review
 

I liked the format--I don't remember any time last season where the contestants sang three different songs in a night.

Kim: She had the best overall showing of the night. She sang the least familiar songs (Band of Gold; Anyone Who Had a Heart; Inseparable)--I was only vaguely familiar with the second one, and not at all with the other two. Anyone Who Had a Heart was her weakest performance--it seemed like maybe it was keyed wrong for her. Last year, what finally sealed Kelly as the winner over Justin (for me and my family) was how much better she was at selling a song unfamiliar to the audience. Kim has this ability.

Ruben: I love this guy, and would definitely buy his album, but this was not his best night, and his voice sounded raspy and tired. He seemed out of breath on Signed, Sealed, Delivered (too much dancing?), and on the Peabo Bryson song his pitch seemed a little off and he missed the high note at the end. Smile was GREAT.

Clay: I think you've got to be right, the producers have it out for him--they're probably just trying to even the playing field. On Vincent, he missed more than just a couple of words--more like several lines of lyrics in the bridge and reprise. This song (hello, about a tragic suicide!) really showed off his lack of emotional range. Mack the Knife was suitably cheesy and shallow for him, and he did perform it like a Vegas headliner, except that his tux didn't fit--what a pencil neck! Unchained Melody is a great song, but I think the too-fast arrangement was calculated to ruin it and succeeded in doing so (though he did hit the high note nicely).

Bottom two should be: Clay and Ruben, with Clay going home.

Bottom two will be: Clay and Kim. I can only hope my hour of pressing redial will help her avoid the axe. If not, may she go on to a career of at least Tamyra Grey quality.

tm

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Kidding?

Asking?

(Running?)

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Serena has identified herself with men by looking like one.

Buffy
 

Cut them some slack. Penultimate episodes are gonna be disappointing. And it's gotta be especially hard to set everything up for a season finale when you don't know whether it's also the series finale.

Of course, there was also a lot of wasted time last night. Who the fuck cares if Anya and Andrew get to be best buds?

Joss was certainly lucky that WB ran the Angel season finale the week before UPN ran this episode, so he could do the whole folder/medallion/go to Sunnydale thing. For rival networks, they've turned out to be pretty accomodating.

[Edited because I really do know the difference between a season and a series finale]

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Okay, Johnny Miller. Allow me to concede the obvious that, in general men are stronger and are able to exert more leverage than women which gives them a natural advantage with the game. That said, let's just look at the statistics for driving distance as a measure (Let me also concede that I'm well aware that there are other measures which could be used, but since you brought it up originally, we'll just use it).

Men's
http://www.pgatour.com/stats/r_101.html

Woman's
http://www.golfweb.com/stats/lpga/distance.htm

Annika has a better distance off the tee than a fair (not enormous) number of men on the tour. John Daly has the greatest distance off the tee, but how many tournaments has he won this year? Tiger is farther down the list than I expected (Currently 48th), and how many has he won this year? Furthermore, there are tournament winners this year who are not appreciably longer hitters than Annika (Scott Hoch, anyone?)

My point, which should be obvious, even to golf experts such as yourself, is that you can win (or let's just settle for being competitive in) a tournament without being the longest hitter, off the tee or otherwise. We could make other comparisons, but then you're getting into apples and oranges, b/c women play off the shorter boxes. Do I think Annika can win? No. Do I think she deserves a chance to compete? Why not? Someone brought up Arnie and Jack playing in the Masters long after their days of consistent competitiveness were over. How is this all that different, except for her um, equipment?

Just as I thought
 

MJ is male?:eek2:

Tiger's view
 

Actually, no. It's a Triple-A format station. They just have a lot of call-in stuff on the morning show.

Shit. I misremembered. It was Smoltz. No wonder I couldn't find any confirmation.

http://www.golfserv.com/gdc/news/article.asp?id=11302

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

I don't think the argument boils down that way. I agree that such a view would be unhealty. But I was really talking about the visibility of the sport, not about people's inherent interest in it. People tend to be interested in what's visible, for better (tennis) or worse (the Bachelor). Women's tennis became more visible, and thus generated more interest, because it was linked to the visible tour. Women's tennis is now successful not because it's linked to men's tennis, but because the link gave the women the opportunity to show off -- which the Williams sisters have done in spectacular style.

It's unfortunate that it had to come about that way, but the results show just how silly it is to banish the women's game to second tier status. You are not alone in finding women's tennis to be that much more interesting -- in fact, some people think that women's tennis is what's keeping the pro tour alive.

Annika's making a strong showing in a PGA event may increase visibility and may help make women's golf more popular, but it would be a shame if it pulled women away from LPGA events in favor of competing in the PGA. But barring a total revolution in the way that the tours are organized so that the women can benefit from the PGA tour's pre-existing visibility (i.e. setting it up so that the men's and women's US Open, etc. occur during the same period with alternate days/times of play) women's golf just won't reach the same level of popularity. TV only has so many minutes it will devote to golf, and TV execs don't want to sacrifice advertising revenue for the sake of advancing the women's game.

Singh apologizes to Sorenstam
 

Generally, women's sports are not as exciting to watch (unless you are there in person, then it's exciting). Tennis is the exception - women's is more exciting to watch than men's because the finesse is greater in the women's game than the men. People like Venus and Serena, in my opinion, threaten to turn it into the slam fest that is the men's tour. Although I can't stand her, I'd prefer to watch Hingis than the Williams sisters any day.

Men's golf is more exciting than women's. I don't know why - men just seem to make more spectacular shots than women (short and long). And they put better, so you get those incredible long puts.

At least this is just my opinion - mens sports are generally more exciting to me.

This writer a few years ago made a comparison to mens sports played around the turn of the century and women's sports today. He argued that the men's hockey of the turn of the century is the women's hockey today. I am not sure if that is true, but it strikes me that probably men's tennis was more exciting way back when before it became such a game of power.

And I have about 10 different conflicting opinions about merging men's and women's sports, but I have to say that I admire Hayley Wickenheiser - going to Finland to play men's hockey because that is where the game is at her level. She's scoring goals and taking checks and everything. If you have to play with the men to play at your proper level, you should be allowed to, I think. Annika, unfortunately is between levels - better than the women but not nearly as good as the men. It must kind of suck to be her, in a way.

Re MR's Avatar
 

I totally heart Ed Norton, but he is not nearly as "fancy" as Brad Pitt. Please revert to the Brad Pitt avatar. Or send me my Brad Pitt G-string already.