What I was doing was (a) trying to be clever (although this failed miserably - I blame the IQ of the audience) and (b) trying to subtly point out that sleep deprivation IN AND OF ITSELF perhaps does not rise to the level of torture.

Of course being imprisoned wrongfully, in and of itself and without any sleep deprivation, is probably the worst torture on Earth that I can imagine. Adding the sleep deprivation only compounds the misery. I thought that was so evident that it didn't have to be expressly recognized.

And it's all free!!!!
 

This is why making sweeping conclusions based on limited personal experience is risky.




Yes. Had we been French citizens, we would not have had to pay. He made this very clear.

Ditto for the pharmacy, where 3 prescriptions cost us a whopping 20 bucks.

Note that my insurance carrier gave me the option of going spending about 2 hours filling out forms to get a partial reimbursement of some of that money.



I don't know -- I didn't go to the hospital in France. I've seen some pretty unhappy practices in US hospitals, though. Like when I had to take my wife home three times, in the middle of labor, because her contractions weren't "regular enough" to convince the resident that she was really about to give birth.

On the fourth trip to the hospital, when the resident told us to come back only when they got regular (which they never, ever did), or if there was a particular indication of a more urgent situation. At which point, I pulled out a towel on which that particular indicator was quite evident, and said "like this?" -- and they let us stay. Ya' think, maybe, they could've checked for that themselves before throwing us back onto the street?

Responding twice to the same post -- good indicator of your reliable calmness. Ask ppnyc.

So you were making a stupid point about something irrelevant? Thanks for clarifying.

By this logic, having a prison guard repeatedly shove his penis in a prisoner's ass isn't torture, because you felt fucked in the ass by the GPs at your former firm.

And it's all free!!!!
 

As I said, quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Spanky
Universal health care would be nice, but if it means becoming more like any of these other systems, that would be a huge mistake.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason why people bring it up, is because most policy discussion I have attended about health care there is always some idiot extolling the virtues of some European or Canadian system and how we should be more like them. I attend a hearing before the California Senate and at leats three idiots got up and started mouthing off about how great the NHS was. Like I said, if we can set up a UHS that is nothing like the European or Japanese models then fine.

See when you start talking about how healthy people in the UK are, it makes me nervous about messing with our system. The people in the UK are probably healthier because they eat better and are less obese, not because they receive better medical care. I used to live in Silverlake in LA and ended up going to the emergency room at LA County General downtown. I heard stories it was like a MASH unit because of the gang problems, and an awful place, but I went there after the South Surrey hosptial and the place was like paradise compared to south surrey. Yes I had to wait two hours, and only saw a resident who was overworked, but at least he spoke English and he seemed to care about my well being. He used only packaged sterile instruments and seemed very competant. And the place was spotless compared to any hospital I had been in Europe. We should try and make our health care system but the knee jerk reaction should be, if this is how they do it in England, France or Japan, then we should not do it that way.

The system could definitely be improved, but it could also be a hell of a lot worse. One way to insure we do not "reform" it downward is to avoid all the mistakes these other countries have made.

If you can't beat em, join em. I running wing all over town with Bubba.

I'm glad someone agrees with me
 

Oh, sure. And next you'll say he planned to invade Iraq even while he was saying that war would be a last resort to eliminate their WMDs.

And it's all free!!!!
 

I can give you equally bad examples in the US system. Would you go to your local county or city hospital or clinics (assuming that they're unaffiliated with a local medical school) if you had a choice? An IHS clinc?

My rugby accident story may not have been as happy (and given the hangover the next morning, it's not THAT happy of a story) if I had walked the extra two miles to the hospital emergency room. I just was lucky enough to have stopped at my GPs office first to ask if they could stitch me up because they were on the way to the hospital. If you'd ended up at another clinic for your doctor's note, maybe you would have had a different experience.

Again, I and most of the other people who have considered giving serious, serious thought to universal coverage understand and appreciate that we will never, ever end up with any sort of system that is already in existence elsewhere in the world. Does anyone honestly think that the insurance companies are going to roll over and give up the healthcare market? Whatever system is developed will have to overlap with the current system in some way. Generally the plans I've seen have involved expanding Medicare or Medicaid in some fashion or looking closer at the VA system.

Ah, Spring
 

I only ask because I'm a real cunt in spring
You can rent me by the hour
I know all about the ugly pilgrim thing
Entertainers bring May flowers

Okay, baby. You're right. I should have just called you nasty things to prove my calmness. Clearly, the hysteria implied by the evenness of my posts is upsetting you.

And it's all free!!!!
 

I'm not saying that NHS is the model we should adopt. I, rather the researchers are saying that the people in England are better off health wise than the people in the US. Certainly the health care systems play a role in that among other things.

LA County General is staffed by USC. Of course you're going to get good care there. It's like going to Ben Taub here, which is the county hospital staffed by Baylor and gets all the gruesome car crashes and gunshot wounds.

Must we continue to use that word? Is there a reference I am missing or something?

For some reason, I find that word particularly hateful.

No, no reference.

OK. Now your just arguing to argue, or because your wife bitchslapped you this morning, or for some other reason. Enjoy.

And it's all free!!!!
 

So, Spanky, what do you thin? If we decide to change our health care system, should we use England, France or Japan as a model?