Re: This
 

at some point we need fewer idiots, but point taken, we're kind of stuck with the ones we have right now.

Re: This
 

Right. And I know one who makes decent five figures and a family member negotiated on behalf of to private pay for a surgery.

You know what these people are called? Outliers. That's why you and I can offer anecdotes about them, while Vox cites $20 bil in state and fed taxes paid by 11 mil undocumented immigrants, which describes a demographic hardly able to afford HC insurance.

I have no objection to subsidizing these people because economically, it makes sense. But the Democrats are bullshitting when they argue that undocumented immigrants would fund anywhere near most of their own HC under any of those Democrats' plans. That's bullshit. If I'm already buying what the Ds are selling on this issue, why bullshit me. Why not just make this argument:

Much like we do with Wal Mart employees, the Federal govt subsidizing HC for undocumented illegals helps to keep the cost of innumerable items low for everyone else in America. They're a stealth workforce that does jobs no one else wants to do, and this is a small price to pay to keep the cost of such labor low. They also spend all of their money in the broader economy, and it does no good for anyone in this country to funnel more dollars to sector with a limited multiplier like HC that's already awash in cash. It actually robs the rest of the economy.

Is that too complex an argument for Joe Sixpack?

Re: This
 

This is what happens when the spoils of the economy are distributed in an extremely lopsided fashion. We're experiencing people feeling unfairness, and the effects of a very cold and merciless new industrial revolution of sorts, but these people have no power. These people are labor, or middle management (the $75k Trump voter). They don't have capital, and if you don't have capital in the new economy, you don't count. So they're doing what the losers in every economic upheaval do: Attacking those they have the power to attack.

It's dumb, it's counterproductive, and it saps us of the diversity that makes this country so innovative. But I see no cure for it. Our debt-addicted rentier economy has created an angry middle class/underclass that is maleducated, or just plain dumb, has no constructive ideas, and simply seeks to lash out.

Debt forgiveness would fix a lot of this. And it's coming.

Re: This
 

The biggest impact on working class wages is the destruction of unions under Reaganism.

Re: This
 

If you pay taxes, then your government benefits are *not* entirely subsidized. You have bought into a conservative trope that immigrants are not members of our community and do not deserve to get anything, which is why it seems obvious to you that they would be almost entirely subsidized. Live where I do for a little while and you might see it differently. I see lots of immigrants, with different legal statuses, who are working and contributing and part of the community, and who are not "almost entirely subsidized." There's no sophistry here -- you and I apparently have different views about immigrants.

Re: This
 

My suspicion is that his part of the country could use more immigrants to kick-start the economy. Lazy assed people there seem to do nothing but go to bad cocktail parties.

My name’s Pitt...
 

More bullshit.

Do you see me using the term “entirely”? That’s your latest strawman.

As to the rest of your quasi ad hominem, trying to change the argument from one where I explain to you that you are full of shit when you say that illegal immigrants in aggregate would not be heavily subsidized under any govt hc insurance plan for them to one about me drinking conservative kool aid is not going to save your ass here.

Why? Because math. $20 billion paid by 11 million undocumenteds. That’s around $2k a piece these people pay in state and fed taxes. That is not a demographic that can pay for any substantial amount of hc insurance. Your anecdotes describe outliers.

Stop.

Fake news!
 

Sophistry indeed.

Re: This
 

I actually agree with you. Entitled whites are the worst of the worst. We should throw the whiners out of the country and replace them entirely with immigrants.

If you’re calling me an entitled white, son, I left your jackass industry to try a few different businesses. Laziness? I wish I had it. My problem is finding what you do so impossibly dull and societally damaging I couldn’t stand it anymore.

The very best thing anyone can do for our economy is innovate full of shit lawyers who create nothing but obstacles and paperwork (we all do, more so than anything else we do) out of existence.

We’re economic poison. As Walter White would say, “we are the trouble.” We have zero moral credibility to criticize anyone.

Hooked, on the boat, but still flipping
 

Almost is a word in the English language you might want to look up.

In the context of this discussion, “almost entirely” is a perfect adjective to convey a scenario where all but outliers of a certain demographic share a common characteristic.

Re: This
 

actually that one was not directed at you but the broad old industrial/rural mid-Atlantic, including my parts of upstate. I understand you're used to me throwing shit at you, so it's a reasonable mistake to make

Re: This
 

Fair enough. I agree that the mid Atlantic is sclerotic. On one hand, there are tons of entrenched locals fighting against innovation and change. (An immigrant client of mine is getting fucked on a license issue by white geriatrics right now.) On the lower end, we’re polluted with entitled and lazy white workers enabled and empowered by Trump’s bullshit.

They’re often horrible workers. Drug issues, miserable attitudes, looking for any angle to grab disability or workers’ comp.

The mid Atlantic desperately needs immigrants. It needs youth. It needs to also become business friendly. Land use, permitting, etc. are used by local business interests and the politicians they buy to protect themselves. This problem is exacerbated in Commonwealths, where every County is like giant feudal estate. And unsurprisingly, where so many layers of crooked bureaucracy persist, lawyers cancer the system, extracting their little rents at every opportunity.

Re: This
 

Hand raising was not a good way to deal with a complicated question. And leads to bad optics.

You know what’s also bad optics? Turning people away from the only available health care in a single payer system (assuming at least some of the candidates are proposing one).

ETA: definitely not the way for a candidate to put it, but if you go the France and need care, they don’t send you to the special foreigner health care providers, which don’t exist, and you get the same care at the same prices as the locals. Because what other option is there?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

As I get toward the end of White Fragility, the entire thing has felt like it was written just for/about Sebby. Everyone should read it.

And in other thoughts that only get expressed “anonymously” here: there’s a local youngish black dude I know only on Twitter who likes a bunch of my tweets. That counts for some sorta pathetic cred, right?

Re: Doesn’t Matter Who Wins the K Race; We’re All the Same
 

Funny. As I read through it it seems in part about me. I think that is the point? Good thing about books as opposed to snap chat is you can re read. Edit- I didn’t mean for this to sound so dicky, sorry