Morality cannot exist without a higher power
 

Why?

Morality cannot exist without a higher power
 

What rational reason is there to to take what is not mine? If I can take anything I want from someone else, then what is there to keep someone else from taking what is mine?

More importantly, why do you think it is rational to take something belonging to somebody else?

Morality cannot exist without a higher power
 

Is he bigger than me?

Morality cannot exist without a higher power
 

If you are sick and some money will cure your ear infection. That is why. You can take the money , heal yourself and you are better off.

Morality cannot exist without a higher power
 

Like I said, there is no negative effect to taking his money. Whether or not you take his money will in no way effect whether other people will take your money.

Morality cannot exist without a higher power
 

I understand that this is your hypothetical -- but it is also counterfactual.

The level of lawlessness (real and perceived) in society (and moreso, in a region) has a dramatic effect on the likelihood that other people will try to take your money.

You do not live in a vacuum, and therefore, O great philosopher, there are rational reasons not to steal unrelated to a UMC.

S_A_M

Morality cannot exist without a higher power
 

You are from California, right?

Just blow him for the money you need -- and get your ear fixed. You are healed, he is relaxed, and you can feel the satisfaction for working for a living and earning your daily bread.

S_A_M

Life is Nasty, Brutish and Short
 

Your hypo doesn't work for this reason: in such a world, I am better off not having his money, for if I have all that money, I am the next to be killed to fix an ear infection.

And, once dead, I would expect to then be cannibalized, of course, because -- why not? Ear infection cured AND a full belly!

Morality cannot exist without a higher power
 

Yes there are other reasons not to steal unreleated to the UMC. If you get caught, you go to jail. But that has nothing to do with morality.

If you live in a civilzed society, and you reap the benefits, why live by societies rules if you can get away with it? If you can get away with insider trading and no one will ever catch you, why shouldn't you do it?

If the only rational reason you have for not stealing is that you don't want people to steal from you, or you don't want to go to jail, then you should steal if it you can get away with it. Correct?

Life is Nasty, Brutish and Short
 

That is assuming that if you steal, society will collapse and you will no longer be protected by societies rules. If you are going to get real world on me, you are way to insignificant to have a lasting effect on society.

If you figure out a way to cheat on your taxes and you are sure you will never get caught, why shouldn't you do it? Your cheating on your taxes, especially if you never tell anyone about it, so no one will ever know about it, will not detrimentally effect society.

Why shouldn't you do it?

Life is Nasty, Brutish and Short
 

Reputation. Which can itself be converted into currency, affection, or any number of other things I seek.

But, that having been said, do you like dark meat?

At some point in moral reasoning (if moral reasoning does not come down to self purposes) you have to make irrational assumptions.

You can either say that you want to survive and thrive, and therefore everything you do is in line with that purpose is moral.

Or you can try and rationalize morality, but in any such rationalization you have to just assume some things are wrong with out being able to rationalize them.

For example.

The killing of innocent people is wrong.

There is no way to rationally defend that. But we all assume it is a rule.

If you try and rationalize it by saying we set up that rule so we won't get killed. Then you are really saying it is in my interest of self presevation not to kill innocent people because if I want to live in a society where people are not killed then I can't kill innocent people. However, logically, if you can kill an innocent person with out having it effect how society operates, then there is no reason not to do it. Especially if it benefits you.

Therefore there is no rational way to defend "the killing of innocent people is wrong".

Life is Nasty, Brutish and Short
 

If no one ever knows you did it then your reputation, affection from other people, etc. will never be affected.

Are you trying to argue that all morality is based on self interest?

Morality cannot exist without a higher power
 

Oral sex is immoral.

Morality cannot exist without a higher power
 

That's ridiculous. Of course it will. You can't ignore the existence of a social contract even if it does get in the way of your argument.