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-   -   Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=875)

Sidd Finch 03-26-2015 11:01 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 495102)
Last nights events in Yemen may well suggest you are right,
Okay, this is some scary shit. Even leaving aside whether this draws the US in, the entire fucking region is poised to go up in flames. Thank goodness we invaded Iraq to start the waves of democracy rolling.



Quote:
but I think that "more like the Iranian population" factor will eventually play out on both sides. And they do still have some oil....
Maybe. So long as the ayatollahs are in power, it's hard to see that happening, and I suspect they are willing and able to do things that even the Shah couldn't do to hold onto power. The Shahs soldiers chose not to shoot protestors, but the religious militias would make a different choice.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-26-2015 11:06 AM
Re: Well, Sidd, their point is as good as most of yours...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 495107)
Nope. I recognize, first, that things are rarely as monolithic as we want them to be. W had certain reasons and rationales (including his tendency and need to demonstrate "resolve"), Rummy and Cheney had others, Condi and Powell had more, and people who voted in Congress had more. So when I talk about "reasons" I'm talking about reasons that various people involved in the decision had. This wasn't a unilateral decision by one person who overrode contrary opinions from his close advisors.

And I fundamentally have trouble with the notion that no one in the administration, let along Congress, actually believed the WMD rationale. It was bogus, it was highly paranoid, but to suggest -- as you do -- that it was pure fiction that no one ever actually believed? I guess I lack that level of arrogance.
Of course some people believed it. Doesn't change that it was, indeed, total fiction.

And an enormous expenditure of American credibility. At best, Obama can only make a small down payment on recovering that credibility.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-26-2015 11:35 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 495108)
Okay, this is some scary shit. Even leaving aside whether this draws the US in, the entire fucking region is poised to go up in flames. Thank goodness we invaded Iraq to start the waves of democracy rolling.
[BAD JOKE] At last a war I can believe in, where coffee is at stake. [/BAD JOKE]

Here is the best primer I have found on Yemen. And even though it's a couple months old it's not even out of date yet! It is also particularly useful because it highlights that the best reason to object to the Houthis has nothing to do with their religion, which none of us have ever heard of anyway; it is instead because they are dickheads.

It is a little dismaying how much more enthusiastic much of this "Coalition for Legitimacy" is for crushing the Houthis as compared to the fight against ISIS. But it's good KSA is such a strong ally.

Quote:
Maybe. So long as the ayatollahs are in power, it's hard to see that happening, and I suspect they are willing and able to do things that even the Shah couldn't do to hold onto power. The Shahs soldiers chose not to shoot protestors, but the religious militias would make a different choice.
Up until almost the very end, the Shah was thinking conservative Islam might support him against the greater common threat of westernized types with socialist and democratic tendencies, and then he began realizing he might need to buy off the damned democrats and socialists in order to protect himself from the Ayatollahs. The decision not to shoot wasn't an ethical thing.

Adder 03-26-2015 12:06 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 495108)
Okay, this is some scary shit. Even leaving aside whether this draws the US in, the entire fucking region is poised to go up in flames. Thank goodness we invaded Iraq to start the waves of democracy rolling.
Hey, look on the bright side! Maybe they will finally be able to sort themselves out in a way that makes more sense than what the West sketched out on maps outside of Paris 100 years ago.

Just don't think how horrific the price of that might be.

Sidd Finch 03-26-2015 01:43 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 495110)

It is a little dismaying how much more enthusiastic much of this "Coalition for Legitimacy" is for crushing the Houthis as compared to the fight against ISIS. But it's good KSA is such a strong ally.

I think that any reluctance to crush ISIS is based on the recognition that this will help Iran (and possibly Shiites generally). It's a rationale similar to the one that led us to support Saddam for so many years. But ISIS is so extreme, and creates such potential for triggering a much hotter and more intense war if it gains more power and territory, that even the Saudis have to look at them and say "whoa, we may be crazy, but those muthafuckahs are REALLY crazy and we don't want to be like them." (This is how San Francisco looks at Berkeley from time to time.)

Sidd Finch 03-26-2015 01:44 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 495111)
Hey, look on the bright side! Maybe they will finally be able to sort themselves out in a way that makes more sense than what the West sketched out on maps outside of Paris 100 years ago.

Just don't think how horrific the price of that might be.
Yeah, that worked out so well in places like Biafra.

Sidd Finch 03-26-2015 01:45 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 495110)

Up until almost the very end, the Shah was thinking conservative Islam might support him against the greater common threat of westernized types with socialist and democratic tendencies, and then he began realizing he might need to buy off the damned democrats and socialists in order to protect himself from the Ayatollahs. The decision not to shoot wasn't an ethical thing.
Fair enough, but same difference -- the Revolutionary Guard and their volunteer minions aren't going to stop supporting the Ayatollahs.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-26-2015 02:00 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 495112)
I think that any reluctance to crush ISIS is based on the recognition that this will help Iran (and possibly Shiites generally). It's a rationale similar to the one that led us to support Saddam for so many years. But ISIS is so extreme, and creates such potential for triggering a much hotter and more intense war if it gains more power and territory, that even the Saudis have to look at them and say "whoa, we may be crazy, but those muthafuckahs are REALLY crazy and we don't want to be like them." (This is how San Francisco looks at Berkeley from time to time.)
ISIS' stronghold in the wastes of the Syrian dessert is a fine place for everyone to let not just Iran but also the US keep busy and out of their hair.

Sure, let them fight over Raqaa. Meanwhile, no one will really miss Yemen, and Saudi Arabia could nearly double its population and get some fertile soil and a pretty good port. And, as a bonus, the place has been a total magnet for crazies!

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-26-2015 02:01 PM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 495114)
Fair enough, but same difference -- the Revolutionary Guard and their volunteer minions aren't going to stop supporting the Ayatollahs.
All the old constituencies are still there, just wearing different headgear in public.

Sidd Finch 03-26-2015 03:24 PM
Small Rant re: GOP Wingnuts (arguably a repetitive term these days)
 
Can I just say that I am sick to fucking death of the attacks on Obama for freeing Bergdahl.

Yes, military resources were used to find him, rather than to do other operations. We do that. We don't willingly leave soldiers in enemy hands.

Yes, Obama swapped prisoners to free him. We do that. We always have. We usually get the worse end of the deal; it's values thing. Don't like it? Go rub yourself off over Israeli toughness for awhile, and ignore how many times they have released far more people to get theirs back.

Yes, Obama didn't consult Congress about this. Fuck you. He's C-in-C. Name one President who ever consulted Congress about a prisoner swap. You can't, and that's even when Congress was not stocked with traitors who thought they were all Secretary of State.

Yes, he has now been charged with desertion. So fucking what? If he were guilty, would we return him to a Taliban prison? And I thought the GOP liked to talk about the Constitution (these days they do). I didn't realize there was a "but I hate Obama" exception to the "innocent until proven guilty" clause.

Fucking fuck fuck fuckers. I grow tired of the cheap shots.



Rant over. This rant brought to you by my new Comcast xFinity system, which appears to automatically tune to Fox news whenever a PPV or OnDemand show ends. (Seriously.)

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-26-2015 05:52 PM
Re: Small Rant re: GOP Wingnuts (arguably a repetitive term these days)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 495117)
Can I just say that I am sick to fucking death of the attacks on Obama for freeing Bergdahl.

Yes, military resources were used to find him, rather than to do other operations. We do that. We don't willingly leave soldiers in enemy hands.

Yes, Obama swapped prisoners to free him. We do that. We always have. We usually get the worse end of the deal; it's values thing. Don't like it? Go rub yourself off over Israeli toughness for awhile, and ignore how many times they have released far more people to get theirs back.

Yes, Obama didn't consult Congress about this. Fuck you. He's C-in-C. Name one President who ever consulted Congress about a prisoner swap. You can't, and that's even when Congress was not stocked with traitors who thought they were all Secretary of State.

Yes, he has now been charged with desertion. So fucking what? If he were guilty, would we return him to a Taliban prison? And I thought the GOP liked to talk about the Constitution (these days they do). I didn't realize there was a "but I hate Obama" exception to the "innocent until proven guilty" clause.

Fucking fuck fuck fuckers. I grow tired of the cheap shots.



Rant over. This rant brought to you by my new Comcast xFinity system, which appears to automatically tune to Fox news whenever a PPV or OnDemand show ends. (Seriously.)
You know watching Fox makes you dumber, don't you?

Yeah, Obama stood by the Armed Forces and their code. Leave no soldier behind. Why do conservatives hate our women and men in uniform?

ThurgreedMarshall 03-26-2015 06:04 PM
Re: Small Rant re: GOP Wingnuts (arguably a repetitive term these days)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidd Finch (Post 495117)
Can I just say that I am sick to fucking death of the attacks on Obama for freeing Bergdahl.

Yes, military resources were used to find him, rather than to do other operations. We do that. We don't willingly leave soldiers in enemy hands.

Yes, Obama swapped prisoners to free him. We do that. We always have. We usually get the worse end of the deal; it's values thing. Don't like it? Go rub yourself off over Israeli toughness for awhile, and ignore how many times they have released far more people to get theirs back.

Yes, Obama didn't consult Congress about this. Fuck you. He's C-in-C. Name one President who ever consulted Congress about a prisoner swap. You can't, and that's even when Congress was not stocked with traitors who thought they were all Secretary of State.

Yes, he has now been charged with desertion. So fucking what? If he were guilty, would we return him to a Taliban prison? And I thought the GOP liked to talk about the Constitution (these days they do). I didn't realize there was a "but I hate Obama" exception to the "innocent until proven guilty" clause.

Fucking fuck fuck fuckers. I grow tired of the cheap shots.



Rant over. This rant brought to you by my new Comcast xFinity system, which appears to automatically tune to Fox news whenever a PPV or OnDemand show ends. (Seriously.)
Come on. This is one of those can't-lose Fox topics. If he gets the guy back, any effort at all for a deserter is too much! These are his priorities and they show his many weaknesses, especially the one where he negotiates with his terrorist friends!

If he doesn't save the guy, he has no regard for (white) American life, especially one that was tortured!

It's just the natural state of the Fox Nation.

TM

Tyrone Slothrop 03-27-2015 12:10 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 495097)
Iran was our ally until GGG and Ty's 'rents elected Jimmy Carter president.

of course the Shah was a terrible ruler who killed his people? And Sadaam was........?
Blaming the election of Jimmy Carter for the Iranian Revolution is like saying the Lions didn't go to the Super Bowl because you didn't go to all the home games.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 03-27-2015 10:56 AM
Re: Is Ted Cruz Satan? Discuss.
 
Twitter told me there were reports overnight of Hindu mob violence against a Muslim cow trader. Unfortunately, there's a bit of a rash of this in India lately.

Sidd Finch 03-27-2015 11:03 AM
Re: Small Rant re: GOP Wingnuts (arguably a repetitive term these days)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 495123)
You know watching Fox makes you dumber, don't you?

Yeah, Obama stood by the Armed Forces and their code. Leave no soldier behind. Why do conservatives hate our women and men in uniform?
The 30 seconds of Fox I've been forced to watch, while trying to find the remote, have made me dumber. It is true.


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