Re: Prop 8 fallout.
 

Gays in SF, LA and NY could afford to cast protest votes for third parties. I would be seriously surprised if gays and lesbians in the swing states reported having voted a third party ticket in any substantial numbers.

BTW, according to Wikipedia, Nader received 698,798 votes. That's nearly three quarters of a million hippies who continued to believe that Republicrats are the same as Demopublicans, which was a charmingly naïve delusion in 2000 but intellectually inexusable in 2008. California is responsible for 105,375 of these idiots, and NY has 41,086 of them.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Caroline Kennedy may be inarticulate but she does have work experience with performance metrics that are stellar.

After undergrad, she worked at a museum amd worked her way up
Graduated from Columbia Law - top 10% of her class
She's written five books on her own and two with a co-writer with good sales as a writer
She's raised money and awareness for NYC Schools as a Fundraiser for the School - and took a buck as an annual salary but raise over $50mill
She's manages the Kennedy Library Foundation and sits on several boards...

Verbal tics don't mean your stupid..... Now whether she should be senator or not is another discussion but on a credential match...there are plenty of folks in the House and the Senate who can only wish their resume looked this good......

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I'm still not that impressed. I am not sure what working at museum means or how far she worked her way up. Law School.....eh....the writing credentials would be impressive, except I question how she got her first publishing contract......merit? The fundraising doesn't impress me. I have raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for much smaller organizations. my contacts aren't what hers are, but even if my numbers had been miillions I don't think it would give me any special qualification or competency to be a US senator.

For an appointment, there should be a higher standard and there are certainly more qualified people. Lots. As was demonstrated.

I don't think her verbal tics mean she's stupid, although the whole of demeanor is one of someone who would be awful at retail politics or relating to constituents. As for other, less qualified people in Congress, I agree, but i imagine almost all of them were elected-which is different context.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

how about the fact she took a $1 annual salary?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I want a job managing a foundation with my last name on it. Where do you apply for those?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

But you didn't question the quality of her experience, you questioned its existence. And does it really matter if she had any assistance at all in getting her first book deal? If her books didn't sell, there wouldn't have been the opportunity to write the others.... As for the musuem work, I am certain more detailed info is out there but I think she started as a researcher or some other entry level position. All of this to say that if you disagree with her politics, what you think she represents as a Kennedy etc... then say that but don't disregard her personal achievements. We all network and use our contacts etc... doesn't mean we don't have to perform when we get there.... and when we do a good job, no one says we did a good job because we had a contact etc....

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I think that depend on what your last name is. Or whether you might be willing to change it to "Bill and Melinda Gates," e.g.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Easy! You or a member of your family simply needs to start one.... Of course it would suck if you were running it because your familiy member for whom it was named was assassinated and not there to do the work him or herself......

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I'm checking Monster.com now. I'll pass along anything relevant that I am not interested in.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

FWIW, museum politics are pretty cut throat.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

See, now I feel bad. Is it too late to give her the Senate seat so I'll feel better?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Making it to age 50, as a member of America's royal family will certainly result in some life experience, and degrees, in her family's case usually from well-reed top tier schools. As with W, she started halfway between third base and home plate so some minimum credentials are to be expected. But at best, her "work" experience and acheivements are sparse for someone of her age. I may not agree with her politics but I don't find much more common cause with Andrew Cuomo's, however, I am objective enough to look at his record and note, that for someone who could have coasted on his family's name in private sector endeavors (like W) he has a record of acheivement and work in public service such that I would have had no issue with his appointment.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

My last name is pretty common. There must be one out there already. Do they pay well?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

While I am sure this is true, I can't think of any museum curators I'd support for higher political office. Great folks, and fascinating to listen to, and I could even see some of them as good voices to have on a board, I can't think of any I would have administer something other than an arts organization.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Wouldn't it depend on the job and how high you rise? Big law firm politics can be cut throat but probably not so much for the overnight word processing staff.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Apples and oranges....as I said earlier, whether she should have been appointed Senator is an entirely different discussion versus whether she has qualification/credentials and/or experience. My point was she certainly has the credentials, and in some cases better qualifications and experience so the ad hominen attacks are pointless in the discussion. I think there would have been pros/cons to appointing her Senator, but that wasn't the issue raised. A nice try at a diversion.....

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I will back pedal a step or two.....if Al Franken is the eventual "winner" of the MN seat, if CK was willing to relocate, I would support a removal of Franken from the office, by force, if necessary, and the installation of CK in that seat.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

On reflection, I'll stipulate that she has the credentials, she is at least 30 years old; a U.S. citizen for at least nine years at the time of [apointment] to the Senate; and a resident of the state [that she was proposed to be appointed] to represent in the Senate.

Her experience is sparse and not really strategically on point for an appointment. Let her run in 2010 and prove her case. I doubt it will happen because the dissection of her paucity of her experience and the arrogance of her attempt to be rewarded the seat on a legacy basis would be exposed and would resonate with the electorate, despite, the largely dimwitted profile of the latter group, present company NYers excepted.

Re: Really: Who cares?
 

Sort of. She doesn't appear to admit it, but several people say she is:

http://www.legalforce.com/browseprov...5-ebb8318efb84

http://www99.epinions.com/review/edu...t_219010666116

http://www.frontierspublishing.com/2...ourworld1.html

and the haircut is proof anyway.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I guess we define 'coast' differently..... Since we have EXPLICIT evidence that being born into a 'royal' type of family and access to top notch education does not make you smart (looking right at you, W!) I'd hardly call her credentials minimal. I am having a hard time understanding why achievement in her chosen areas is invalid. It sounds like place a lower value on the type of work she does, and if that is the case, then simply say, I don't value raising money for public schools, writing books about constitutional rights and/or for children or working in the arts. But her 'sparce' accomplishments also include taking time out to have and raise three children. As a working mom, trying to grow my career and raise sane, responsible children, if her accomplishments are sparce, I wonder what success can look like at only 50....

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Hey, if the question were should she be on a corporate board, I'd likely be all in favor of her. I'd be happy to have her on the board of my alma mater. I might even be happy to see her as Senator after a few years at a lower level position. But she's had the opportunity to be involved in politics her whole adult life, and the first thing she did of any significance was a year ago. I didn't even see her when I worked her Uncle's Presidential campaign back in the day.

I wouldn't support her for appointment or election as Senator based on her current credentials, though. She has credentials, but not "the" credentials - her only credential for the NY Senate seat is her last name. The rest was Chutzpah.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Unless she changes her mind, she has already said she was going to run in 2010. What does 'strategically on point mean? I am not trying to be antagonistic, just trying to understand why you think she is so unqualified? She a lawyer and has written extensively on the constitution and privacy related issues. She basically worked for free raising money for NYC public schools, so it is a reasonable presumption that she is well versed in education related issues at a time when there is reasonable concensus that we as a country have serious educational deficits with out peers around the world. She serves as President to a foundation whose goals are education related, supporting the musuem and library. She sits on the boards of various service related foundations and organizations. She has actually lived her whole life in NY, rather than moved there just in time to run.... (not knocking Hilary, just stating a fact). Why is it arrogant to say I'd like to be considered for the open seat when the only requirements are as you've posted above? I'll see if I can find the cite for her statement that she'd run regardless of her selection....

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

You're asking why it's arrogant to think your first job in politics should be US Senator from NY?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I think we define sparce differently. I'll pass on parsing it further, and note, that if she runs in 2010, I wish her luck with making her case.

See Michelle Obama in 5 years. Or Kirsten Gillibrand in 6.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Come on now..so because she didn't run for school board and city council, she's not qualified? What lower level position did Hilary have? Wife can be a 'job' that requires the patience of Job, but it isn't A job. (apologies for the biblical reference to any non-believers on the board) Heck, isn't the Senate basically the corporate board of America?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

If Peter Marzio wanted to run for higher office, I'd fully support him. I don't think he'd have any interest in it whatsoever, but he'd be an excellent steward of public resources.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Worked pretty well for Hil.....

(job as a politician, not as congressional counsel, as a project manager assigned by your husband)

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Yes, I would rather see someone in the US Senate have run for and won lower office first, and fully understand the dynamics of election cycles and legislative politics the way you do only by being in the middle of it. Here in Massachusetts, Mitt Romney was a perfectly intelligent, experienced indivudal (with somewhat antediluvian views) who got crucified when he took office because he lacked that experience. More recently, Duval Patrick had a very bumpy initiation - same problem, though he had significantly more (appointed) governmental experience. You can argue both ways as to whether Governor or Senator is a tougher job for a political first year, but I can't think of a case where a neophyte has stood out in either.

Here is a woman who had great opportunity to be in the middle of all of that (look at Patrick down in RI, for example), and chose not to be for the first 50 years of her life. It's not so bad to start at the bottom, say, with a nice Congressional seat?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I went for curator rather than director because the guys at the very top at Museums would often fit the bill for a transition into politics in my mind. They get immersed in a lot of legislative issues there, and have real executive authority over often stunningly large budgets. I don't think Caroline made it to that level.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

OK, stp. Best political neophyte I can think of. Lightning never hits twice in the same place.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Don't see them as dramatically different, just different types of work...

Caroline - law, philanthropy
Michelle - law, hospital admin
Kirsten - don't know much about her but at a min from wiki - law - politics...she's won a tough race and one re-election

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I can't agree that being more of a politician makes one more likely to be a good senator.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Mr. Smith is a great movie character.

And he's a Great Senator if your only ambition is to get a boys camp built.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I wasn't a fan of hers, and I really don't like the idea of family dynasties.

That said, it's well past time that you lay off this one. I mean, do you think she's less qualified than Fred Grandy was when Rs elected him to Congress?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I haven't seen you here before. Have you had much contact with Penske? He's still questioning the existence of air pollution from cars.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I don't recall having seen you on this board before. Have you had much experience with Penske?

The ad hominem attacks ARE the point of the discussion. For him. When talking about Dems.

Don't take that away from him -- it's really all that he has left.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Are you new here? Have you had much experience with GGG? He may not like you bitch-slapping him so thoroughly.

(Nicely done.)

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I've been around from the old infirmation days, just post very sporadically...

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I didn't specify curators or administrators. I think that, for example,Mari Carmen Ramirez is quite politically shrewd in her own sphere, but her sphere is limited in focus, if not scope (Latin America is huge).

I don't know much about what Kennedy did at the Met. But I know a lot about museums. Working on the administrative side of museums, especially large encyclopedic museums, requires knowledge of the community that you're in, the ability to tap resources and develop partnerships, an ability to cultivate and retain donors without pissing them off, and a deep understanding of the current political climate in the community. Museums are often regarded by the public as, well, a public resource, and as such, they're administered quited politically. I think a museum administrator, like a University administrator, is probably well qualified to run for political office. And they may even be qualified to skip the school board or city council.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Uh huh.

But I'm not sure that being around the Kennedy clan (ETA: among other things) is less of an political education than, say, the experience of recent Senators from Minnesota such as college professor (Wellstone), one term as state auditor (Dayton), one term as a country prosecutor (Klobuchar) and tv personality followed by one term in the House (Grams).

Granted, I don't think Dayton or Grams particularly distringuished themselves, and Klobuchar hasn't been around long enough to say, but Wellstone (the only one who never held elected office) did pretty well for himself.