Re: Good Night, Michael
 

I've acknowledged that he is a talented performer. And if all he'd left is his work with the Jackson 5, that would still be something. But let's face it, it's not his work with the Jackson 5 that made him a pop cultural icon. And MJ sold a kajillion albums after Quincy mainly on momentum from his stardom, certainly not on the albums' merits. How many post-Quincy albums do you own? Do you listen to "Black or White" every evening as you fall asleep in your princess bed?

Perhaps, but not very well. The role of an NBA basketball coach and a producer of pop albums is very, very different.

No Quincy Jones? You mean the guy who started out playing with and arranging for Lionel Hampton? Who was nominated for his first Academy Award in the '60s? The guy who coaxed Miles Davis out of retirement and got him to record shortly before Davis died? HE needs Michael Jackson?

I didn't think so.

Stop it. That's like remembering Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney for "Ebony and Ivory."

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

you're saying he dominated studio time through all those years?

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

This is getting rEdiculous.

Seriously, they are/were both highly talented and the combination made for some great albums. I don't think you can say it was all (or even mostly) one or the other.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

No clue if he belonged, but apparently he was an excellent defender. If he quit because he actually wanted to focus on his studies because he knew basketball wasn't in his future, good for him. If he quite because of the pressure his name brings, then that's too bad.

And if that works, I guess they're improving their program. Sucks for the kid whose spot he takes, but name a professional where this bullshit doesn't happen.

TM

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Sure you can. Name a good Michael Jackson album post-Quincy.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Once again, just because you don't like the albums doesn't mean he wasn't a huge success. And he was a HUGE star with the Jackson 5. To think he wasn't going to continue on that tack is fucking ridiculous.

And I think Michael wrote "Remember the Time," "The Way You Make Me Feel" and a bunch of other songs after Quincy that I like.

Whatever. You seem to think Michael Jackson couldn't have found another producer to create some hits and your evidence is that after he was over the hill, he didn't have as many (and those he had were the product of the momentum a previous producer created). The fact is, it was a collaborative effort and Michael Jackson was a huge talent.

Quincy Jones used the success he and Michael Jackson achieved to launch himself into a level of success he would never have had--producing tv, movies, other artists who all wanted to work with him. Without Michael, he would have been a success with the critics, but you probably wouldn't even know his name.

Bullshit. If the guy was so brilliant and Michael was "not so much," then he could have reproduced the success he had with Michael. He did not. And Tevin Campbell is the perfect example of that.

And tell your mother to get the fuck off my princess bed.

TM

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Shifter morphed into Hank in your post.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Where do you stand on the eternal Miller Huggins / Babe Ruth controversy?

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

He had walked on, got a spring sememster scholarship b/c it wasn't being used and wasn't going to have a scholarship this year (not that he needs it, but still). He averaged about 8 minutes per game on a so-so team.

His little brother is going to Central Florida in the fall.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

I wondered if he didn't go into the belly of the beast by playing in illinois, but I suppose if MJ is your dad, it's not like there's any place you can go where he isn't an icon (maybe University of Pisa?)

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

I sense a new avatar coming.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Thanks. Didn't notice I was still pasting the quote line from the previous post.

TM

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

I think the live ball should be in the Hall of Fame instead of Ruth.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

But he qualified for in-state tuition there.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Yeah, just like Donny Osmond.

Well-produced songs. Without his previous success, they'd be pop footnotes.

He may have done as well as Donna Summer did with Georgio Moroder, which is fantastic stuff. The Quincy produced stuff, however, is timeless. Needless, to say, everybody was playing MJ at all the bars last night. It's amazing how contemporary it sounds. That is not MJ, that's Quincy.

Oh, sure, I would have never heard Frank Sinatra's "Fly Me to the Moon."

Quincy had a remarkable career long before, and long after his collaboration with Michael Jackson. You are deluded.

Take her dick out of your mouth and tell her yourself.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Whatever. This argument is stupid but it's all on your side. I believe they were two hugely talented people who combined to make incredible music. You believe it was all Quincy. You're welcome to think that based on those two stances that I'm the one whose deluded, but you'd be...well...you know.*

I'll leave the implication on your mental health of that image of your mother for you to deal with on your own. Good luck.

TM

*Retarded.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

I agree with this. It's not about Michael or Quincy. It's really all about MTV. And the Ed Sullivan Show.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Just don't get him started on Shaq and Kobe.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Jackson had 13 #1 singles. 10 of these were produced by Jones. It's about the same ratio for his Top 10s.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Let me get this straight -- your case is that all his best work was either with the Jackson Five OR on "Off the Wall" OR on "Thriller" OR on "Bad"? Shit, dude, if we gave up on folks just because they started sucking in 1987, we'd all have PLF on ignore.

Fml
 

Eom

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Well then every band doesn't deserve its accolades. Because the Stones had Jimmy Miller, the Beatles had George Martin, the Allmans had Tom Dowd (fucking genius), half of the best modern rap had Dr. Dre, the Beasties had the Dust Brothers, as did Beck, etc...

Are all these bands unimpressive because they had great producers behind them? Jones is a genius, but Michael Jackson was a 80% of that package, and that's being kind to Jones.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

The Beatles themselves often referred to Martin as the 5th Beatle. At any rate, all of the Beatles except for Ringo had significant solo careers without Martin. The Allman Brothers? Surely you understand the difference between producing someone like Michael Jackson and a jam band. They made their name as a live act. Where was their producer then? Your inclusion of Dr. Dre merely reinforces my point, and the Beasties achieved commercial and critical success with different producers.

A lot of what goes into a Michael Jackson song is not Michael Jackson. Someone needs to arrange the music -- decide which instruments should be used where, how loud, what sound, etc. And the person who decided that on the albums that made Michael Jackson the pop icon he is was Quincy Jones.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Or, the music industry improperly rewards contributors who did not dominate the creation of their artistic products, if you will.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Zeppellin?

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Watching the very beginning of the 20/20 two hour special tonight has reminded me that we should instead perhaps consider condemning MJ for the rash of craptackular "bands" that dance more than they sing that have been the scourge of pop music since.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

I made the dominate joke before. am i on ignore?

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

I haven't read 69,140 of anything.

Education fail
 

Either they need to reorder their priorities, or they need to acknowledge that their priorities are not accurately described.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...L/28270023.JPG

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Don't be fucking with Zep.

Re: Education fail
 

you can't be certain. what if the team is 0-9, and only practices once a week?

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

Oh, Christ... My bad.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

If we narrow Shifter's point to: Michael Jackson would have never reached the commercial and critical success he earned without his collaboration with Quincy Jones, then I'll agree. Michael Jackson was a singular talent. He could sing, he could dance, he could act. (He could do the first two far better than the last one, but he was a complete entertainer.)

He was also a world-class eccentric, with a host of personal problems and demons that likely drove him to excellence and later ruined him as a creative person. Quincy Jones masterfully harnessed Jackson's eccentricities to make groundbreaking pop music in "Off The Wall" and "Thriller." Quincy Jones was responsible for helping Michael achieve an adult sound and to shed his bubblegum past. By selecting bassist Louis Johnson and drummer John Robinson, he brought a hardcore funk rhythm section to "Off The Wall" that shouldn't be shortchanged. But as anyone who has heard the commentary from Quincy Jones on the expanded editions of those records or has heard Michael Jackson's efforts on some of the demos, Michael brought not just songs, but ideas to the table on those records.

I personally don't care about much Michael Jackson did after "Thriller." I was thrilled when Nirvana kicked Michael Jackson off the top of the charts back in 1991. But Michael Jackson was not the empty vessel that Britney Spears is.

Having said all that, Qunicy Jones also deserves credit for another one of his productions:

http://chrisonrails.files.wordpress....hida_jones.jpg

Re: Education fail
 

Then how did Athletics make spot ## 4?

Re: Education fail
 

the original joke is that academics aren't so important to the team. my follow-up is that academics only need be more important then athletics, and if the team is really bad, than academics could still be #3.

Re: Good Night, Michael
 

you seem to have strong opinions about music. let me ask you this, do think it would be fair for this board to set up a fund to reimburse those of us who bought CDs relying on recommendations from Flower? I mean, if not for this board i wouldn't even have heard of him, so there is proximate cause.

What happened
 

With Ron Jeremy?

Re: This is the thread where the fringster comes back with teeth
 

Michael Jackson hasn't been this stiff since Macully Culkin spent the night at Neverland Ranch.

* Because Jackson's body was 95% plastic, he will be melted down and turned into legos, this way kids can play with him for a change.

* Reports that Michael Jackson has died of a heart attack in his home are untrue, He actually died having a stroke in the children's ward.

* In the spirit of recycling, Michael Jackson will be melted down into plastic party cups so kids can still get their lips around his rim.

* In accordance with Michael Jackson's will, little boys pants shall be flown at half-mast today.

* Doctors are looking into claims that MJ's death could have been caused by an allergic reaction from eating 12 year old nuts.

* I heard Michael Jackson died of food poisoning from eating a 5 year old wiener.

* Micheal Jackson will always be with us he is not biodegradable.

* Farrah Fawcett arrived at the Pearly Gates and God asked her what he could do for her having led such an honest life. Farrah asked God to simply make sure the children of the world were safe. Five minutes later, Michael Jackson died.

* MJ's dying wish was to be melted down and turned into straws so he can still get sucked on by kids.

* It has been released that MJ's last wish was that he wants to be melted down and made into a slide so kids can go down on him forever.

* In memory of MJ's death, McDonald's is coming out with the new "McJackson". It's 50 year old meat between 12 year old buns.

* Michael Jackson's ashes are going to be put in an Etch A Sketch so kids can still twiddle his knob.

* Michael Jackson's death has now been ruled a suicide. Apparently doctors told him that the only way he could get whiter is if he died.

* Only in America can someone be born a poor black kid, and die a rich white woman.
* To MJ, a perfect "10" was two five year olds...

* Madonna sent her condolences to the Jackson family. Then asked how much they wanted for the kids.

* Breaking News: Casper the friendly ghost was molested in the early hours of this morning!

* Michael Jackson's last words: "Take me to the Children's Hospital!"

* What was Michael Jacksons last hit? The floor!

Re: Education fail
 

I felt the wind from this whiff all the way over here.

LessinKotaKinabalu, Borneo, Malaysia