Bachelor
 

I'm with you. How can a proposal that is immediately preceded by a heart-pounding fit of anxiety over whether you will be chosen or dumped for the other contender be one that you want to look back on for the rest of your married life? It's like these women are waiting for the cast list or varsity cheerleading tryout results to be posted.

BAchelor
 

That wouldn't work b/c there'd be no way they could keep the identity of the final "lady" a secret for that long. And I doubt as many people would watch if they already knew who his final choice was. Nobody gives a damn whether these people actually stay together or not, they only want to see the "ladies" be bitchy to one another and melt down in the limo.

Oh yeah, that's the best part. Seeing the crying in the limo scene - it's what I waited for. At first I thought Kirsten wasn't going to cry - because she has no feelings - and then when that first little tear dribbled down her cheeks - ah yes, a good moment in TV. No one deserved to cry in the limo more than that chick. You have to ask yourself - if a person doesn't get along with ANY women - is it her or them?

His parents said that they believed in love at first sight - having gotten engaged after 2 weeks of dating. So they were really on board with this concept. As for the $$ the sisters and brothers made it seem like all their $$ was tied up in the winery and that they weren't "trust fund babies" with money coming out their asses. And they truly seemed like hard working, down to earth people. However, the publicity for the winery - priceless.

As for the first part- some of us actually have an interest in specuilating about how long the relationship will last and have seen enough limo meltdowns to not get off on that sort of thing. For me the social and matchmaking aspects are far more interstings than watching some chick with a bad nose job have meltdown (again).

I read the recap on ABC and apparentlyu Mister ANdrew cut a check for over 48 grand for this ring without batting an eye. I dont know about you but I certainly dont have that kind of money kicking around in a checking account. Us non-heir types have to invest in things that bear interest and such. And wealth is all relative anyway- I am sure the Firestones feel merely uppermiddle class compared to those pesky Forbes nd Murdochs. The point about my being surprised about the parents being on board is taht it surprises me that ultra rich people would allow cameras around their premises- for security and privacy reasons. Plus, its just downright tacky isnt it debtslave? Wouldnt old money types be appaled by this sort of publicity whoring? Thats why I think they have to be thinking about selling Firestone wines.

I have no respect for people with virtually infinite trust funds who still work. They're missing the point. I want a trust fund SO I CAN SIT ON MY ASS...

Poll: How soon is too soon
 

Ok, so I met this couple this weekend. One person I had met before, the other was knew to me. We'll call them person A and person B.

Person B has two kids, under the age of 14. They seem a nice couple, and are talking about how person A has put her house on the market, and they have just put in an offer on a new house.

Person A will be moving to Person B's town, since they don't want to take the kids out of the school they are used to.

So hearing all this I figure, ok these folks have been together a while, right?

We are outside chatting after dinner, and I ask them how long they have been together.

March, they inform me.

MARCH? Ok, maybe I am crazy but I don't think that you can even begin to know if a relationship will work 2 months into it. You haven't even had a chance for the lust to wear off.

I am also thinking, you want to take a chance like this with your own lives, go for it, but with two young kids?

Personally, I cannot imagine even considering moving in with someone until at least a year has passed. Oh sure we might discuss it a bit about the 6 month mark or so, but to actually move in?

If I had kids, I would be very very hesitant about moving them in with someone else.

What do you folks think? How soon is too soon, with or without kids?

The Bachelor
 

I was under the impression that ABC paid for all the rings )except for the second guy who insisted on paying for it himself?

The Bachelor
 

Well, it just said he wrote the check. I assume that he is writing from his own checking account. not clear whether abc is gonna reimburse but I dont recall Alex cutting his own check. After Aaron made the big move of buying the ring himslf, Andew would just look like a cheap bastard if he didnt pay for his own ring.

as for leagl's question- i think it is totally subjective and that a rule cant be placed on these things. but you probably should have a lot in common in terms of where you have been and where you want to go. A friend of mine once said that you never really know someone until four months have oassed- I think there is some truth to this in my experience. but it isnt like an overnight thing where at 3 months and twentyeight days you dont know the other and then, schwump, you do.

Poll: How soon is too soon
 

Too soon for moving in with each other? Without kids, I'd say about a year. With kids, much longer. Like, two or three years.

In fact, call me old-fashioned, but if I were single with kids, I would not have someone move in with me unless marriage was imminent.

Which is strange because I've always felt that having the gov't and a religion put a stamp of approval on your relationship is bullshit. I've never had a problem with couples who were a "couple" but weren't married. Same goes for couples having kids without being married. I couldn't care less.

But in this case we're talking about my kids. So before I force them to live with some other adult, I'm going to make sure I'm fully committed to said other adult. If I were so fully committed (pun intended), I would probably want to get married.

Poll: How soon is too soon
 

This is a train wreck waiting to happen especially when there are children involved. Wait at least six months before moving in together so that the relationship can be evaluated realistically instead of through rose tinted glasses.

It will be interesting when Person A attempts to discipline Person B's children or vice versa.

"breaking news" from the Firestone vineyard website
 

My favorite paragraph

"As most of you know, this family is anything but conventional, and so the eccentricity of this approach did engender some appeal. If our parents could meet at the stage door of a ballet theatre, then why not on a television studio? In Andrew’s case, it seemed entirely appropriate. He concluded that life would be all the spicier for having attempted this thing and especially dull if he had overlooked it. Filming is complete and now the process is in the hands of television marketers. Andrew reports that the ladies he met were simply amazing, ending any reservations he had held."

Poll: How soon is too soon
 

March ?! Two months?! Poor kids.

With no kids, I'd say a year is about right. The lust needs to wear off, holidays and family dynamics need to be expericenced, families met, and vacations taken.

With kids, double or triple that. It also depends on the kids themselves, their age, and whether or not there is another parent in the picture.

Personally I'm rather old-fashioned. I want some kind of symbol or ceremony before I live with someone in the biblical sense. Too often I've known people who moved in together for convenience and the relationship has never lasted.

Lush Life
 

On Friday, after a particularly tough week, I consoled myself on the drive home by redrafting my Lottery Winner Press Conference Speech. This is the speech I will give to the press upon winning >$35MM in the California lottery. I redraft it about once a year.

Atticus: I suppose you're wondering why I've called you all here. [Wait for laughter.] I am pleased to announce my candidacy for the Republican Party's nomination to the United States Senate for the great state of California. [Wait for nervous laughter.] It is every self-made millionaire's duty to run for the GOP nomination; we call it the White Man's Burden. [Wait for roar of laughter.] I would be pleased to answer any questions you have for me, excepting my home address and telephone number.

AP reporter: I'm with the AP. What are you going to do with all of that fucking money?

Atticus: There are a couple of charitable causes I'd like to address first. For example, I am proud to finally be able to assist the worldwide cause of ferret legalization. I will not rest until we have enslaved every living ferret under the dominion of a fat and creepy human overlord.

BBC reporter: I'm extremely turned on by you right now, but duty compels me to ask: are you going to continue to work?

Atticus: God has blessed me with freedom from toil. It would be a slap in the face to reject that gift. However, my keen sense of noblesse oblige directs me to teach in inner city schools. Sure, it will be a lot of hard work on behalf of my fellow man. There is a long and honorable history of the rich undertaking society's most thankless tasks. Fortunately, I'll be able to get to and from work in a really fucking sweet car. I urge any inner city school with secured, covered parking to contact me to discuss terms. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got a date to bang a model on a pile of cash.

Some people are just fame whores. They all seemed to enjoy themselves on camera.

What I find baffling is the assumption that because people are wealthy, even wealthy for generations, they somehow have class.

Some of the tackiest people I have known are from incredibly wealthy, old-money families (several of whom have founded prominent colleges).

I was involved in a palm beach wedding several years ago that, though elegant, rivaled the tackiest bride and bridal family behavior I have ever seen. The bad behavior was so horrendous that family and friend relationships were fractured forever.

So, why should we be surprised that the Firestones encouraged their youngest boy to whore himself on tv as a lark?

Poll: How soon is too soon
 

This an M-F couple or a F-F couple?

not7yS

Associate backstabbing
 

Because nobody read the press inquiries board, I strongly urge y'all to consider submissions to this request for stories about associate backstabbing.

Unfortunately, I can't think of any that take less than 45 minutes to explain. They also require hand motions, which don't translate well into e-mail.

BAchelor
 

Don't they keep it a secret now? At least they could have a few weekends together.

Anyway, I'm guessing 95% would stay tuned for the second hour.

As for Firstone, isn't he like the "marketing" director for the winery? His older bro' is like the managing director or VP or something more important. Seems to me it's the perfect thing for the black sheep to do -- go on TV, get some pub. Unless the Jen fan club is a bunch of wine drinkers, when he dumps her no one will care, least of all the family business.

BAchelor
 

They only have to keep it a secret now for a few months. and the couple only sees each other a few times during that time. If they did it your way, there's no way that they could keep it a secret if the couple were actually living near each other and going out and acting like a normal couple.

And I'm not saying people wouldn't watch the second half of the finale, I'm saying they wouldn't watch the entire series. It's boring when you already know who wins, which is why ABC goes to such lengths to plant false stories and keep the "winners" of the Bachelor/Bachelorette a secret.

The Bachelor
 

Well they date each other for 8 weeks during the shooting - what I don't get is why they wait so long to air the show. And what I'd really like to see is the finale live - like Survivor. Make the girls wait to see who really wins and then show it live.

Poll: How soon is too soon
 

I was wondering when someone would ask that. In this case, it is two women. Does it matter though?

I note you didn't ask if it was M-M. How come? Just assumed two men wouldn't move in together that quickly or no particular reason?

How soon is Now
 

You used "she" when describing house seller A.

It makes a difference insofar as the "wait until marriage" argument can be removed from the discussion.

noy7yS

Poll: How soon is too soon
 

Doomed.

I know a couple disturbingly similar to this. They got engaged about 4 mos after their first date and before the "I wuv you, Schmoopy" love-is-blind stage had passed. They married within a year of the first date and now hate each other. She hates his kids and is jealous of the time he spends with them and he hates how she treats the kids (badly, btw.) They are currently divorcing and the kids are in therapy.

At least a year without kids, with kids, much slower. After 2 months, how do you know they are not an axe-murderer(ess)? At least your couple won't be legally locked to each other when the relationship goes down the toilet, but selling your house is pretty drastic.

-TL

The Bachelor
 

That's actually a great idea. It would be hilarious to make them both wait a few months before they found out who he chose. It would also be interesting to see if he changed his mind after having no contact with either of them for a few months. But then the editors of the show might be able to influence his decision by choosing the footage that went into the episodes.

Poll: How soon is too soon
 

Well, to me, there are two kinds of moving in. There's moving in where everyone's mailing address is the same, there are no other homes, etc. And then there's moving in where "I keep my clothes and my furniture at my house, but I sleep, eat, watch tv, etc, at his house."

Depending on the relationship, it can be a only matter of weeks before it's perfectly ok to de facto move in together.

The scenario you describe is complicated by two factors: distance and kids.

Distance: I have some familiarity with long distance relationships, and in my experience, there's a certain point where both parties have to agree that the distance is going to go away or the relationship is not going to work. Vauge assurances that someday circumstances will bring us together don't cut it. I could see being in a situation where I would move to another town or insist that someone else move to my town in a very short time if we were going to continue the relationship. Money, not knowing any one else in town and other factors may make it practical that you move in with the other person, though I personally couldn't see doing that. I'd like to ease in from the dating, to the informal moving in to the formal moving in.

Kids: I have less familiarity with kids, though I believe that a more formal moving in is probably preferable to the informal wake up and see "Uncle" at the breakfast table four out of the seven mornings a week. The informal moving in doesn't work as well with kids around. That said, I also think that the space between meeting and moving in, formal or informal, should be at least six months, and the kids should be comfortable with the person in the house.

From the sick and wrong file
 

Dane Acquitted in Goldfish Blender Case
A Danish art museum director was acquitted of animal cruelty charges Monday after a court ruled that a display featuring goldfish inside working blenders was not cruel.

The display at the Trapholt Art Museum in Kolding featured 10 blenders and invited visitors to blend the fish if they wanted to. Somebody did in early 2000 - and two goldfish were ground up.

goldfish in blender

Ruling, not cruel - just gross.

Boring Tech Stuff - But important.
 

Microsoft is evil. People pretending to be Microsoft are evil, too.

I just received this warning through the e-mail about a worm that is infecting computers. It's supposedly being sent to people as an attachment from Microsoft.

spree: article about "worm"

http://rss.com.com/2100-1002_3-1007603.html

Everyone be careful about what you open.

sf

How soon is Now
 

True enough. Here you cannot make that argument. Most gay people I know who go through a committment ceremony already live together before they go through one. Often, they have been living together for a long time. In fact I cannot think of one gay couple who had the ceremony before they moved in. Of course, these days, I can't think of too many straight couples who got married before they moved in. Engaged maybe, but not married.

From the sick and wrong file
 

There's a whole bunch of contemporary art for which I have no use, but I actually think the artist did a good job on this one. That's thought-provoking stuff. Well done.

And by the way, animals are killed for art all the time, so don't even go there.

Onto a different topic, I saw X-Men and Matrix back to back on Saturday night, which worked out well because while all the other Matrix ticket holders were lined up out front for seats, the s/o and I got to hang out in front of the theater-doors and got in first, by virtue of our having just seen X-Men.

If you had to see one of the two, I'd pick Matrix. It's more of an event, I guess. That said, I don't think that many thinking adults are going to consider it deep or saying anything important about being, consciousness, choice, etc. But the three big set-pieces (martial arts, weapons, and the car/motorcycle scene) are really really extraordinarily well done and worth the price of admission.

Speaking of which, the Grove in LA has upped their prices to $11.50 for Fri/Sat nights, and $10.50 other times. It had Matrix on four screens, every show sold out. Damnnn.

As for X-Men, I thought it was damn good. Much better than I'd expected. Again, nothing really profound about prejudice and difference (I could feel it coming, and yet I cringed at the heavy-handedness of the line "Have you tried, you know, not being a mutant?"). But like everyone else here, I think Nightcrawler rocks, the kiddies did great, and Storm got to be appropriately kick-ass, which was missing from the first. A sneak preview of Colossaus even.

So here's my question. The books I remember from my youth had Rogue/Kitty (and Colossaus) as full-fledged members of the X-men, and no mention of Iceman or Pyro. So are the movies going a different path from the comics? Or is this just an earlier period of X-men history that I don't know about?

Trailers that got the biggest response: Bad Boys II (second last trailer for Matrix, lots of applause), and Freddy vs. Jason (last trailer, TONS of applause). Word is that Freddy/Jason is awful, however. People love the idea though.

xmen stuff
 

I think they are blending different xmen periods/storylines.

For example you have the whole Nightcrawler/Mystique is she or isn't she his mom thing. Which enabled you to read the scene where he asks her why she doesn't pretend to be "normal" and they put on that lovey sort of music and he gets a lovesick look. Is that an incestuous thing, he doesn't know she is possibly his mom at that point, since he just met her? Or is she not supposed to be his mom in the series?

Iceman et al I remember from some of the earlier tv shows, and he was a full fledgedmember there. Rogue was the foster daughter of Mystique and her partner...Destiny is it? So she didn't start out as an x-man at all. She started out on the other side. She was thrown out of her house though, when the mutant stuff started to show itself.

I never was a huge reader of the comics though, most of what I know just comes from reading some of the history of the series, which is confused by all the different comics there are, which have sometimes contradictory things going on.

It makes it hard to be sure what the movie is taking as "true" and what it is throwing out.

From the sick and wrong file
 

The movie is reconstruction of the story using some stuff from the books some stuff out of the air.

Warning: I am a huge geek.

First five X-men were Jean Grey, Cyclops, the Beast, Iceman and Angel. They ran around for a few dozen books, were cancelled, and relaunched and joined by Wolverine, Storm, Collosus, Nightcrawler, Banshee and Sunfire. Kitty Pride joined up another couple dozen issues later and she and Collosus had a thing that's been going on for decades (though think that Collosus has been killed off recently).

Rogue is a totally different person than Kitty Pride. Kitty can walk through walls, and she's fairly good at fixing computers. Rogue is the adopted daughter of Mystique (and therefore Nightcrawler's adopted sister), and she has additional powers in the book. She has the power absorption thing, and she's invunerable and can fly. She's always been an adult in the comics, whereas Kitty has grown up over the years.

My guess is the next movie will focus on the Dark Phoenix saga, without the confusing space stuff, and certainly no suicides on the moon.

xmen stuff
 

The rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks faq (http://users.rcn.com/kateshort/faqs/racmxFAQ/faq1.html) is fairly comprehensive for backstory on the comics, including cancelled titles like X-Factor, X-Force, X-cetera.

Marvel has been selling trade paperbacks of the older stories in the Essentials series. You can get twenty or so comics in one trade paperback if you're itching to find out why the hell Angel hates Wolverine or why the Beast is sometimes furry and sometimes normal looking.

Wow. And I thought I was a geek.

;)

Poll: How Soon is Too Soon
 

As someone who has had step-parents/live-ins in the double digits, I would have to agree with the wait six months to a year philosophy - both Mom and Dad seem to be on the hunt for that elusive perfect spouse. The live-in thing can be very difficult to unwind if assets are intertwined. Marriage raises all sorts of issues when you have kids/assets - case in point - Mom met/married stepfather number two within a six month period only to discover that he had been cheating on his income taxes for numerous years and she has lots of assets - they were married in Jan and divorced by April 15th.

The kid thing is also hard because you don't want to foist someone on your kids if they are not going to be around. Stepmother #9 actually pranced around the wedding chanting "this will be (insert Dad's name here)'s last wedding," (my uncle thought to should "someone get that on tape, we may need it for the (murder/wrongful death) trial," inference being that that is the only way to guarantee such a thing, which kind of insured that we did not have to see her at family gatherings for an entire year.) She has unfortunately recovered and is now urging the kids to refer to her as "Grandma" which I am discouraging, although I do wish that Ritznephew had not repeated that "temporary/revolving door Grandma" comment on Mother's Day. Who knows, it may guarantee that we don't have to see her for yet another year.

I know. I scare myself on a fairly regular basis with this crap.

From the sick and wrong file
 

Wasn't Beast in the Defenders by then? And you forgot the "not long for this Earth" Thunderbird. I forget when Havok and Polaris show up.

She shows up in issue 129, which incidentally, is begins to frame the Dark Phoenix storyline

As she permanently stole them from Ms. Marvel - later, Binary.

Or the Hellfire Club? and the Shi'ar? Or the Starjammers? Or the X-factor "coccoon" nonsense?

not7y(I cannot remember what I ate yesterday, yet I remember comic books from 1981)S

From the sick and wrong file
 

If I had to guess, the Hellfire Club will be there, but not with Mastermind, because they just had him in this last movie (albiet as a combo of one of those Genosha mutates). Shi'ar and Starjammers are out. Jean Grey won't die two movies in a row, so she'll live after whatever trial they put her through. I bet she'll destroy a city or an island or something somewhere, and the rest of the movie will be trying to get Jean to come out of the Phoenix.

From the sick and wrong file
 

Wasn't Dark Phoenix one of Paigow's socks? Or was it one of mine?!?

Lush Life
 

Atticus: Fortunately, I'll be able to get to and from work in a really fucking sweet car. I urge any inner city school with secured, covered parking to contact me to discuss terms. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got a date to bang a model on a pile of cash.


You're my new hero.

X Freaks
 

I wonder which characters that were important to the comix will end up on the editing room floor. A few I can imagine are:

1) Longshot -- strange concept, would be glad if he didn't show,
2) The Sentinels -- an odd lot, a little too matrixy
3) The Brood -- Alien meets the starjammers
4) The new Storm (with the mohawk!). I always wanted to be the new storm.

Lush Life
 

I too have imagined how mine would go:

Journalist: What are you going to do with money?

LessinSF: Spend it on drugs and hookers.

Lottery Employee: Thank you all. See you next Wednesday.