Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

also, when replying to penske better not to raise rounded images when talking about female pols as it might well bring out his lactation lover sock.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Wellstone built up his constituency over more than a decade, running for other offices statewide and running other campaigns statewide. He was immersed in state politics for a long period of time.

Kennedy had every opportunity for a lot of years to do that. There are many political candidates who would have welcomed her involvement and participation. She just showed no interest until she wanted one of the top jobs.

There's a reason for cutting your teeth somewhere - in Caroline's case, for example, a run for Congress would have undoubtedly ironed out some of those little speaking quirks that got picked out and left her better prepared.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

you must not know your overnight WP staff. At my last big law we have this really icky guy who had a book of porn he'd talk into the restroom with him, and stay for quite awhile IYKWIMAITTYD.

Word is there was plenty of back stabbing and power brokering that went on to avoid havijng to work on his files.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I see. So if she had run state auditor and lost once you would be okay? And how is one run for auditor "other offices statewide?" Perhaps I am misremembering.

But if you want other examples, a bit of internet research reminds me that other two other Minnesota multi-term Senators were also neophytes: Dave Durenberger and Rudy Boschwitz (who Wellstone beat in a surprise upset). Granted Durenberger ended up with some ethical issues in the Senate, but still.

ETA: The point being that I don't think it is that uncommon for Senator to be someone first political office.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I thought there was more than one, but am not from MN, so I'll defer.

She might have been a wonderful Senator - and all credentials are is a way to say there's good reason to make that bet. But I'd rather bet on Gillibrand for the job myself - even though I probably agree with Kennedy (from what I can ascertain) on more issues.

If I saw Caroline Kennedy out there running a good election, the way I believe Wellstone did, it would increase my comfort level. It certainly increased my comfort level with Deval Patrick, for example, though he still stumbled (now looks to be recovering).

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

To I think everyone's great surprise, Wellstone was a top-notch campaigner. Built an envied grass roots campaign and was an energizing and engaging speaker.

I really don't care one way or the other about Caroline. As mommylawyer has pointed out, I think there is ample room to have defended the pick if it was needed. But for most part, the criticisms of her are her are noise that is meant to cover for either an instinctive dislike of Kennedies, or aversion to perceived dynasties.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I think the difference is you're pointing to people who were elected. It's one thing for a majority of voters to elect a goofball (see, e.g., (maybe), Minnesota), it's another to have a governor appoint a goofball.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I've probably voted for more Kennedys than anyone here, and have hung with a few Roosevelts in my time. Perhaps you can find some other knee-jerk bias that I'm masking?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

If she was, say, Vanilla Ice, maybe the distinction between elected and appointed would matter. But she isn't Vanilla Ice, and, honestly, I don't think you can objectively call her a goofball.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Did some simple digging, began as research asst in film/tv at MoMA and became liason officer between museum staff and outside producers/directors. No idea what that means but she didn't stay a research assistant and was there for several years...

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I wasn't talking specifically about you. Your beef seems to be you want a proven political operator, which seems like a legit, if somewhat uncommon, thing to value.

Re: We will never agree on this and therefore it is pointless to talk about!
 

Kennedy Removes Self From Senate Consideration

One day before New York governor David Patterson made his selection, Caroline Kennedy, the daughter of President John F. Kennedy, has withdrawn her bid to replace Hillary Clinton in the Senate. What do you think?


http://www.theonion.com/content/file...o5.article.jpg
Scott Gallivan,
Systems Analyst

"It's about time the Kennedy family's string of good luck ended."

http://www.theonion.com/content/file...o4.article.jpg
Erin Phirman,
Warehoue Supervisor

"I guess at this point she just goes back to being a Level Two Kennedy."

http://www.theonion.com/content/file...o3.article.jpg
Cody Lofgren,
Electronics Tester

"That's all right, she's already done so much to help this country by having John F. Kennedy as a father."

http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo...lf_from_senate

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Maybe/maybe not ... I'm from MA too, just don't pahk my cah by the rivah when I visit my friend Linder

lol

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I am laying off. I went to a 2 hour lunch. I will say, in specific response to the last part of your post above, that all of my criticism is based on the concept of the selection of an appointee to temporarily fill an otherwise elective office. As for someone throwing their hat in the ring, running and being elected, the only qualifications are the minimum reqs in the Constitution. After that its up to the will and stupidity of the electorate, eg Fred Grandy.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Dissent. I refined my response to note that her life experience existed, but i find it sparse. Is the above you meant by an ad hominen attack.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

So you'll support Russ Feingold's constitutional amendment?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Is the above what you mean by an ad hominen attack? OTOH, my dissent is not based on ad hominen attacks, its based on the sparsity of her experience, which, would not place anyone else in the ring for such an appointment, which proposal was based seemingly entirely on her name and connections.

As for the D comment, aren't you tired of that partisan shite yet? I supported, in particular order Gillibrand, Cuomo, Maloney, and Lowey for the appointment. Aren't they all Ds?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

That sock is pre-occupied, its submitting its resume for an intern position with Gillibrand.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Isn't the other (significant?) difference that Wellstone got elected, not appointed, to the Senate?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Think age; I've been pulling that levah longah.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Is it uncommon for someone's first political office to be an appointment rather than an election? Is there some substantive difference between election and appointment?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Cite please?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

I don't care about that distinction for the same reasons you do. For me, that's mostly about the calculus as to whether the appointee will get themselves reelected and help the rest of the ticket, not whether I think they will be a good senator.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

How do you feel about Muriel Humphrey's service after Hubert was elected as VP?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

As Henry Kissinger is alleged to have quipped, there is no politics quite as vicious as academic politics, because there is so little at stake.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

So you objected when Gov. Ventura appointed Dean Barkley to fill out Wellstone's term? Or was his experience as repeat third party candidate and advisor to the Ventura campaign enough to meet your standard?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

You don't pahk a cah in the rivah, you pahk your cah in the ocean.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

No.

The Geithner Defense
 

Already being hauled out:

KERIK EYES 'GEITHNER' TAX BREAK

"In new court papers, the former police commissioner complains that the feds want to send him to prison for the same sort of problems that officials overlooked in Geithner, whom the Senate confirmed yesterday as treasury secretary."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01272009...eak_152201.htm

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

So you're saying elections are a sham that simply allow voters to choose between the party elite's hand-picked favorite son or daughter?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Interesting thing to note, after your assumptions, I actually have a soft spot for the Camelot mystique and grew up with a fond idealisation of John and Bobby. My first campaign work was for Dodd, who, while not a Kennedy, fashioned a Kennedyesque head of hair for himself, and also, based on some first hand observation was able to stay drink for drink with Teddy.

That said, I assume the living Kennedys, while all or mostly Ds (is Schwvarzanegger an honourary K?), have some diversity in to their positions, so I can't say I have a dislike of all of their politics, although I dislike a lot of Teds (however, keep in mind, his presidential campaign was my second endeavour in working on a campaign). Personally, to the extent that I have met any kennedys, and I have, they seemed like decent folk, so no instinctive dislike there either.

I do, however, have an aversion to political dynasties and acheivement by legacy and/or nepotism, although that's probably my bias of having grown up at the bottom of the ladder and not having had a name or family wealth to leverage. If I had the latter, I would probably look down my nose on all of you proles.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Sounds like intro to middling positions. Not really a foundation for an appointment as a US Senator.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Wellstone was a professor of political science, so I don't think he works in your analogy.

TM

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

My post-partisan persona dislikes that calculus. No offence. HOw about good government for good government's sake, not one party's advantage over the other.....? Am I too idealistic?

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Mary Bono (R-Ca)
Lindy Boggs (D-La)
Jo Ann Emerson (R-Mo)
Lois Capps (D-Ca)
Doris Matsui (D-Ca)

These women were, however, elected following the deaths of their incumbent spouses, which I contend is healthier than appointment, though personally I can't see myself voting for a candidate who pledged to carry out the so-called legacy of anyone. That sounds like a prescription for trouble.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

As a concept I dislike it, but it was thirty years (when politics stil had more of a back room old boys network bent to it) and lasted for less than a year.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

It's hard to reconcile the above with my earlier understanding of things Penske.

Sure, some look at it and call it "post-partisan," but I think that superficial labels such as these only obscure the underlying reality of what's going on, and it's time we just came out and say it: until I saw it with mine own eyes from a Penske post, I had no idea about the transformative qualities of an in-office bidet.

Re: Sheeeeeeyit
 

Does having Ted Kennedy's contacts and influence and the ear of the President count for anything?

I'm pretty ambivalent when it comes to Caroline being a Senator (although I really like what she's done for education in New York). But at some point it comes down to the following question: What can you get done for the constituents of the state of New York? And she probably surpasses most incoming Senators in terms of contacts and influence.

TM

Re: The Geithner Defense
 

Damn! It's too bad we have a legal system in which whatever a defendant says is automatically the law.

ETA: I better tell some clients that this is how it works now. They will be very happy. Hopefully the message reaches the right federal judges.